What's the greatest American daytime soap of all time?

Santa Barbara

My case for AMC:

The quality of the acting company was pretty unrivaled when you had the likes of David Canary, Julia Barr, James Mitchell, Debbi Morgan, Kathleen Noone, Kate Collins, Marcy Walker, and on. While Ruth Warrick and Susan Lucci weren’t exactly thespians, they created larger than life characters. They had great love stories like Cliff & Nina, Jenny & Greg, Tad and Dixie, Nico and Cecily, Dimitri and Erica, Trevor & Natalie, and on. Amazing storylines like Natalie in the well, Kendall arriving to town, Liza/Tad/Marian, Laura’s death, Adam gaslighting Dixie, Billy Clyde terrorizing the town, Ross and Natalie’s disastrous affair, Adam blackmailing Erica back into marriage, Who Killed Will?, Liza breaking up Tad and Dixie- to name just a few. It was also remarkably consistent in the ratings until the medium tanked. #2 overall in the 80s and 90s. Just a total classic.

"Search for Tomorrow"

LOL

What MARY! came up with that title?

THE Guiding Light.

When I still lived back in the 'burg, there was a fried chicken place by the name of "All My Chicken." I laughed my ass off every time I drove by it.

Santa Barbara's writing may have been too good for a soap.

Ryan's Hope had the best writing of any soap but I think there was something about it that would never allow it to be considered the best of all time.

I'd have to vote General Hospital because of the entire Luke and Laura storyline. That they moved so quickly from the organ music to suggestions of rape is pretty impressive.

How can you forget 'Dark Shadows' ? It was the best ! The very best !

Another vote for Dark Shadows.

Incomparable and relentlessly outrageous.

I even loved it for the first nine or so months before the arrival of Barnabas.

Portia Faces Life

OP,

You deserve a big ole kick in the cunt for omitting “Another World”.

R2. I agree with you, except for your comment that Ruth Warrick wasnt’t exactly a thespian. I’ll give you Susan Lucci (she was more an icon than artist), but Warrick had one of the two female leads in “Citizen Kane” and had a very respectable career on film and theatre (granted more stock than Broadway). Phoebe Tyler may not have been Hecuba, but Darrick squeezed all the melodramatic juice there was to be had. Any time she was on screen was going to be a good time—and watching her with Eileen Herlie and Fran Heflin was like a geriatric production of “The Women”— in the best ways.

r11 mea culpa. I knew I'd forgotten something.

I will not even bother going up again the AMC/ATWT juggernaut.. (both supremely overrated but good shows) GH was generally overpraised too.

Some red headed step children never and will never get their due.

Despite being the best show- at its best. And the worst show, at its worst. OLTL is the best for me.

I would call Y&R the best before ever giving that to AMC and ATWT. I would also give GL the honor before those shows.

Another World, you cunt.

Only in the 70s r15. Or maybe the Harry Must Die plot.

The only one I ever watched was The Edge of Night.

Passions. It had fucking witches.

AMC. Easily. realOpal was the best soap character ever.

Lucinda Walsh gets my vote, r19. Elizabeth Hubbard was delightful.

Whoever voted for The Bold and the Beautiful needs to explain herself!

R21 Well. The Bold and The Beautiful unseated The Young and The Restless as the #1 rated soap. It is only 30 mins and in that 30 mins they pack more camp and drama than any other show. Love the fashion show aspect and gave us Sally fucking Spectra.

For me it’s OLTL! The 80s and 90s era so different and yet so amazing! Part of why it deserves the top spot is its under rated underdog red headed ABC soap stepchild treatment.

GH, DaYS, y&r always had the focus from the networks and magazines.

Passions, you stupid fat whore!!!

Thanks r22

"Lucinda Walsh gets my vote"

Mine too, closely followed by the love of her life, Dr. John Dixon. ATWT was HEAVEN when they were together.

And as someone who was an awful snob about B&B back in the day, upon re-watching on Youtube, I will admit that there is a lot to love about it. Susan Flannery has brought me to tears at times (MARY!) in her more tender scenes, and Darlene Conley's Sally Spectra was a wonderful tribute to the "dames" of film noir. At its core, it's really about those two women, and probably the most matriarchal of all the soaps.

OLTL was great but it loses the title because of Eterna and the United Nations living in Slatesantastacks head. They just didn't know when to stop with her alters

The Kelly-Morgan-Nola triangle on the Guiding Light in the late 70’s is the greatest soap opera plot of all time

What could put GL in the running were the scenes between Holly and Blake. They were electrifying.

Maybe you should have divided it up into networks, ABC vs. CBS. Or maybe East Coast vs. West Coast.

I was always a Love in the Afternoon fan. Ryans Hope all the way through GH. 3 1/2 hours is a long time to devote to soaps but it just seemed so worthwhile.

Ryan's Hope just couldn't hold a cast.

AMC, hands down. Despite the way Frons let it be destroyed in the last few years, it had probably the longest run of consistently great storylines, iconic characters, and superb actors. They did and humor and high drama and social issue storylines. Pine Valley felt like a real town, more than any other soap locale. I miss it.

real town....yeah that's what I was trying to think of. You felt like you really knew them and came close to living in Pine Valley.

ATWT because it gave us John Wesley Shipp in his short shorts.

I liked the semi camp take OLTL was willing to indulge. Better than the shows that took themselves so serious!

I hearts Ivan Kipling and his wallpapered closet doors.

R28: "The Kelly-Morgan-Nola triangle on the Guiding Light in the late 70’s is the greatest soap opera plot of all time"

A lot of viewers (like me) might argue that it was the Lily Walsh maternity / paternity story on ATWT, but the common denominator here is the late, great Lisa Brown.

Different network so I would argue Diana Taylor's murder.

ABC writers always knew how to write a good murder mystery. It seems the other networks didn't do it as much. I mean ABC would build a murder mystery storyline and run it for close to a year. Without one second of it being boring.

Late 1984-mid 1985 was not a great time for AMC, with bad recasts of Jenny, Liza, Mike Roy, and Nina, and sending too many of the characters off into their own weird storylines. Tad and Dottie in NYC on the run from the mob—yikes! But they had the great Zach Grayson murder mystery during that time, which was a lot of fun. By 1986, the show was back on track and was great for many, many years. The Who Killed Will Cortlandt? was also a great story.

All the new Nina's were like WTF moments. All of them. I can understand, a little, the casting of Sarah Sanford as Nina because thy looked so much alike. She was just the worst actress I ever saw in daytime. Then they had some red head who acted like she grew up in the Bronx. It was all just horrible. Killing Nina would have been an all time great soap murder mystery and would have just kept her out of the way of better stories for Clifford. Fake Nina starts at 1:40

R41, part of the problem was Taylor Miller was so amazing, one of the all time greatest ingenues on daytime. No one could compare to her. It was similar to Kate Mulgrew on Ryan's Hope. They finally did have to kill off Mary Ryan because the three replacements were all so bad. Ironically, they might have found their new Mary Ryan in Sarah Felder, but they put her into the Siobhan character.

more fake nina starts at 5:37. Just awful but my god they looked alike. Peter Bergman confessed to treating the fake Nina's like shit.

One of the fake Ninas fell in love with Benny.

Oh dear god I forgot about that.

She had amnesia and fell in love with Benny but after she miraculously got her memory back, she was still in love with him. One of the worst storylines for fake Nina.

The best fake nina scene was when she was fist fighting Clifford's sister over some naughty pics of her and Zach.

And here it is.

No soap was greater for longer (over four decades of almost nonstop high quality) with epic characters, villains , and heroines like Guiding Light. It’s simply had a quality most others only touched upon. When it was at its peak, which it had several, nothing else could touch it. Many of the others were campy or ridiculous. While I watched YR, it was often glacial in pacing and its reputation highly benefitted from it being #1.

There was a great scene in Guiding Light when some little girl put Holly in her place for her cynicism. Usually kids in soaps are only annoying. This little girl held her own. "You're always smiling or laughing but I can tell you don't think anything's funny".

This chase scene through the house of mirrors was primetime quality.

Douglas Marland wrote great mysteries as well.

R49- I am a hardcore OLTL and semi former hardcore Y&R fan and I agree with you.

I would give this "award" to GL over the overrated AMC- which was my late mom's show-

I briefly became obsessed with GL as a kid in 88-89. And have seen clips for years on YT from that 91-94 era, as well as the late 70's-early 80's

If I was to guess, GL and OLTL really gave viewers every extreme of style, substance, and quality during their tenures.

I would love to see GL take this one- also for its amazing 50+ year run.

For me- Y&R would win for its cinematic production values and incredible background music/camerawork- but not as best soap of all time-

But definitely the most incredibly produced- for a show to look that good on VIDEOTAPE- is no small feat-

(Definitely in Top 3 for me though- overall)

I know I’m in the minority, but I didn’t hate Fake Nina #1, Heather Stanford…but I loathed Fake Nina #2, the redhead who fell in love with Benny…THAT was atrocious.

Funny that original recipe Nina, Taylor Miller, went to AW as a replacement Sally and flopped..and came back to AMC.

As the World Turns takes the lead.

Some test offered the world the horrifying Jingles the Clown.

Y&R was the first soap to bring up taboo issues like breast cancer, alcoholism, bulimia and lesbianism. Y and R had the youngest cast in daytime (when it first started). They were the first to really talk about and show sex. They covered taboo topics like rape and incest as well as premarital sex and impotence. A lot of people complained about the glacial pace but Bell was the master of the slow burn. Sometimes taking years to reveal secrets the audience knew or even shocking the audiences with long buried secrets even they didn't know.

I am sorry, ATWT does deserve this title. It had a stifling and restrained vibe during its entire run. I'd give it to the similarly overrated AMC over ATWT any day of the week. ATWT as dreary. AMC was hokey.

But even I would watch during commercials to see Lucinda Walsh- I put elizabeth Hubbard up there in the Top 5- especially thanks to Youtube. She was a force.

R59: "It had a stifling and restrained vibe during its entire run."

Totally disagree, especially in regards to the Marland era. The cast was huge, scenes at the Mona Lisa and the hospital had DOZENS of people running in and out of them, almost every story was an umbrella, and something was happening EVERY DAY. It was so energetic and vibrant.

"Stifling and restrained" is the perfect phrase for Y&R, where hothouse flowers like Nikki could stare out windows for hours as they had their endless flashbacks.

As the World Turns started with full sets, a 30 minute running time, introduced the first soap vixen in Lisa, the first super couple in Penny and Jeff , actually slowed down stories and giving them more time to develop. It was one of the most influential soaps ever.

R60- I knew the Marland era would be thrown at me within 3 minutes.

Even with the largest cast in daytime and that "community" feel- I personally found the show to feel very stodgy and sedate. It did not have the production quality to elevate it.

Y&R absolutely fits that description, but I felt with Y&R I was watching a beautiful film. It felt elevated. Elevated trash.

I agree with the other poster that GL probably deserves this more than any show. I also understand AW/AMC being a contender too.

(OLTL stan, and Y&R fan here)

Did you men all grow up in the south possibly? For ATWT to be winning- you all must be well over 55 or so and grew up in the south.

I have never known anyone who watch ATWT in the northeast or west coast.

I would wager the AMC stans were not from the south.

(THis is not some bitchy comment, I am generally curious and always found a pattern with the audiences of these shows)

[quote]I felt with Y&R I was watching a beautiful film.

MARY!!!

r63: my mother watched ATWT faithfully in Ohio in the mid-to-late 1980s. She actually switched from Y&R sometime in 1985. I never got a chance to ask her what prompted the shift, but from my perspective at the time -- I was very young -- ATWT was a more "adult" soap than Y&R.

I did like the Iva, Lilly, Lucinda triangle with Lilly having sex with Holden and Iva freaking out because Lilly was her daughter and she just fucked her brother.

I was hard core ABC but definitely admired ATWT and GL from afar. Those shows seemed really great but my habit was formed and there were only so many hours in the day for a little gay kid to consume daytime TV. I didn’t feel the same way about Days despite their heavy coverage in the soap press. It always seemed cartoonish to me:

Remember when Luke raped Laura and everyone thought it was such a romantic storyline?

He loved her TOO MUCH, R67!!!

Guiding Light gave us Lujack. OLTL and GL shared a similar flaw. OLTL became to Haystack and GL became to Reva centric. Eterna = Clone. The GL killed Maureen EEK. That's when the little girl, Maureen's daughter, popped Holly tough bitch exterior.

Guiding Light. Quality 90% of its run.

It's a tossup between Julia Barr and Maureen Garrett for the all-time best actress in daytime.

I'm rewatching ATWT episodes from 1988 and Elizabeth Hubbard's expressions are hilarious. Too bad they didn't do the Sunset Boulevard remake in the 1990s. She would have been a great cinematic Norma.

I'd also completely forgotten about Kathleen Widdoes's character (Emma Snyder). She was perfect as the wise matriarch.

Jon Hensley emanated sex.

On AW, Kathleen Widdoes played Maeve Kinkead's mom and they unfortunately had a lot of lines where the actors felt they were sisters. Widdoes looked like Kinkead's unattractive, been through the Civil War, mother.

That should have been allowed to continue a lot longer r73. Its ending felt so abrupt, along with so many others on AW.

It was the most abused soap.

I went with As the World Turns even though I loved GL and GH (both especially under the Marland years and GL also under the Pam Long eras).

ATWT had Irna Phillips, who created it; other writers included Bill Bell, the Dobsons, Marland; Hogan Sheffer.

ATWT was one of two soaps that debuted as 30 minute serials; the show -- thanks to Bell -- delved into family dynamics. The Jeff Penny romance and Lisa's antics drove to the show to No.1 where it lasted for decades. The Dobson era was pretty spectactular; it was, in fact, better than their work on Santa Batbara as was their work on GL.

Marland's era on ATWT is soap opera at its finest. He refocused the show on the Hughes clan; he may not have been there when Bob and Kim wed in April 1985 but he re-established the Hughes clan as the show's core family. He brought Nancy and Chris back. Marland's best stories on GL were the Doug Cummings story in which he stalked Kim and then Kim took the rap for his murder, thinking Frannie had done it. He followed that up with Frannie finding her cousin/half sister Sabrina. The aftermath wasn't great but the set up was brilliant.

There was the whole Iva is Lily's mother and Iva's feud with Lucinda. The Lucinda/Craig/Sierra triangle. So many other couples -- Tom and Margo, Casey and Lyla. The idea of Casey, the charming Bill Shanks, chasing Lyla around the house with a gorilla mask on showed that love can happen later in life.

James Stenbeck. Simply Barbara Ryan. Dr. Johnny Dixon. Hubbard's adlibs. I could go on.

ATWT saw some tough years but found a resurgence under Sheffer.

AW lit the cancellation fuse in early 1982 when Pat Randolph (Beverly Penberthy) left Bay City.

The show dismantled the Matthews clan, brought on all those zany actors....Jensen was a horrible Vicky.

Douglass Watson's death put a few more nails in the coffin; the show's inability to find Wyndham a new love interest was a big blow.

Killing Frankie so horribly? That was stupid.

Obviously Passions

Guiding Light. Not even close.

I tried really hard to like Passions. But after a while, I just couldn't anymore.

Maybe I should give it another try.

Grown men who watch soaps are just sad.

🤷 r80

OP, I appreciate your attempt at a debate.

But the truth is.....all of them (or almost all of them) have had their great periods. It's the nature of those shows that have ever changing casts of actors and writers.

And sometimes, if the writers hit their stride and the actors do too, a particular show might be on FIRE. Running on all cylinders.

It IS a debate, too, because what you might think is a great era might be someone else's worst.

AMC definitely had a few runs where that was the case in the late 70s and again in the mid 80s and mid 90s.

Guiding Light had a few great eras too - in the late 70s and the Douglas Marland era in the early 80s, some of Pam Long's time as writer, and for sure the early 90s, which may have been its best era (until Jill Farren Phelps destroyed it).

As The World Turns, for all of its "grandma soap" connotations, definitely had a great era during a few spots of Douglas Marland's head writing time. Especially early on and some of the social issues they did later in his run, like Margo pulling the plug.

OLTL was on fire at a few points in the early 80s, and also had some great story and great work during the first Michael Malone writing stint.

In my humble opinion, Harding Lemay was the best writer AW ever had, and both his early 70s run as well as how he reset the canvas when he returned in 1987 was the best the show ever was.

As much as I generally dislike what Luke and Laura/the rape and the action-adventure BS did to daytime, I have to credit Gloria Monty for the early work she did at GH. It was very film noir-ish, with lots of fabulous characters (and yes, Marland had a hand in creating them too) like Luke and Bobbie, and Tracy Quartermaine. (It was only later, when the charm and quirky characters subsided at GH but the darkness and violence remained, that I truly disliked.)

Have never been much of a DAYS fan but the rejuvenation it got from James Reilly in the early 90s was great, a run of popular characters and story that still impacts it today. Same with most of the Y&R story from the 80s, so much of which we still see playing out today.

R80 is a sad loser who makes that post on every thread remotely mentioning soaps.

The Bells stolded my money.

[quote] AW lit the cancellation fuse in early 1982

But that's when I arrived!

Harding Lemay also helped to bury AW when they went to 90 minutes and they had nowhere near the storylines for that amount of time.

Santa Claus, Indiana

meow

Guiding Light was quality, top notch, from its radio days, its TV debut, until the 90s almost without interruption. The fact it held its own against GH in its heyday, and actually gained viewers opposite it, is a testament to its quality.

R82, I like your post but take exception to Marland having a hand in the creating of Bobbie, Tracy et al.

He did more than have a hand in them; he created the characters; he met with Jackie in Ny before she was hired. He knew what he wanted.

GH hired Pat Falken Smith to take over after he left and went to GL. She was smart to carry along his stories -- especially the Lesley/Rick/Monica/Alan quadrangle.

But after PFS left the show rode on fumes of the characters being so popular for years. Capers and action adventure kept viewers hanging around but they never would have if not for Marland and Smith.

Doug went on to win two writing DT Emmys for GL and then had a great run on ATWT.

He was the best.

R90 Then she followed him to GL when he left and did not do very well, correct?

Sunset Beach... the hexed potion and Martin's syndrome storyline was some.of the finest acting ever on the small screen!!

Generations was the best. You all are just racist.

Agnes Nixon’s aim for AMC was interesting. It was socially aware but also a lighter soap than those on the air. This early scene with Erica does show some of that lightness.

I remember when “Generations” started. I was excited to watch a soap from the very beginning and taped the first week.

It was so boring. The first two episodes had Pat Crowley as Rebecca Whitmore walking aimlessly in the snow and not much else.

Generations gave us Vivica A. Fox. For that it will always be the greatest show ever.

Beaver

Generations WAS pretty dull. I hung in for a while and then bolted, but there was ONE great scene in its run.

Marty’s rape and trial on OLTL in the 90s was one of the best stories of the decade. Topical. Edgy. Well acted. Really solidified OLTL as one of the greatest.

I always felt like turning off Generations because of that lame opening.

Which was the one with that idiot Joanne Pfluge? Hated her.

R100, I liked the show, but I couldn’t agree more about that opening.

R99 No one storyline gets a soap to the pinnacle.

If so, Guiding Light had a plethora to choose from.

Rape? Roger raping his wife Holly leading to some of the best, most thrilling moments in daytime (the clown mirrors scene, Santo Domingo). Or Beth/Bradley. Powerhouse writing/acting, spun the legendary 4 Muskateers storyline.

Sonni/Solita: The soapiest of soap stories, but it was not cheesy, but compelling with a thousand twists/turns. And acting? Michelle Forbes/Kim Zimmer going at it for years! It drove Michelle Forbes insane.

Talk about insane, the Marion/Brent storyline! Powerhouse writing, acting, dark, humor, dark, intensity.

How many storylines were unique like Marion/Brent?

Perhaps that is the standard.

I went to high school with Felicity La Fortune, who did stints on a number of ABC soaps. She was an incredible Miss Adelaide in our production of Guys and Dolls. I expected her to have a bigger career.

Generations gave us this catfight. More campy than Showgirls, if that's possible.

We know, R106, we just saw it like ten posts before yours

Everyone repeats themselves on these threads r107. I suspect you have too, at least in acting as hall monitor.

R108

Come get me.....bitch!

Not into you Justin

GH was HUGE in the early 80s. They even had a hit song. AMC late 80s/Early 90s.

Sally says RECYCLE!

Another vote for "Dark Shadows," if only because of how many millions of people have watched it beyond its original run, and are still watching today. It's an American pop culture phenomenon. It's been years, but I just started rewatching it from the very beginning about a month ago.

R111 Being huge doesn’t equate to quality. GH was very, very good for a stretch, then rode that reputation when it was ridiculous or/and violent. And it had stretches of being terrible terrible terrible.

[quote] GH was HUGE in the early 80s. They even had a hit song

GH made many songs hits in its heyday years, among them

RISE by Herb Alpert

BABY COME TO ME by Patti Austin and James Ingram

and

THINK OF LAURA by Christopher Cross

Who can forget a song INSPIRED by GH, the immortal “General Hospi-TALE”?

Song Shmong.

We had a board game!

Whoops. That was supposed to be a pic of the “As the World Turns” board game but it was too exciting.

I just watched another ATWT episode from 1988. John and Lucinda throw a huge bash for their first anniversary. The Synder clan walks in, and Lucinda says derisively, "Ah, the farm brigade."

I wonder how often Hubbard ad-libbed.

Hubbard was notorious for ad living.

[quote] I wonder how often Hubbard ad-libbed.

Apparently, only on days of the week that ended in Y.......

One of my favorite Liz adlibs was at Lisa's wedding to.....Earl Mitchell, maybe? Sometime in '87 I think. Lucinda is there along with James Stenbeck (!) Lisa walks down the aisle in her gown and Lucinda, turning to James, exclaims (loud enough for everyone to hear) "She's wearing WHITE??!!??"

(It was Lisa's seventh or eighth wedding, after all...)

R72: My vote goes to ATWT, too. Watching Kathleen Widdoes with Lisa Brown, and Elizabeth Hubbard with Larry Bryggman was like watching great theatre.

Y&R benefitted from an almost no competition time slot while 2/3pm with GL/GH/AW was brutal.

I look at how long did each soap give us true quality. Each of them, for the most part, had great peaks while suffering through some shit times.

GL- 40 years of great storytelling ATWT- close to 40 years AW- 25? YR-25? Days- Quality? Camp, many years! OLTL- 25/30? AMC-25/30? BB- ahahahahahahahahaha 0

Was there much cross networking going on. As a die hard ABC fan, I only ventured over to CBS for Y&R occasionally. It does seem like the fan bases were network loyal as well.

This is interesting.

r122 Kathleen Widdoes (and Sam Waterston) in Much Ado.

Kathleen Widdoes shows her boobies in the bizarre film “Savages.”

She’s also the least focused upon member of the group in “The Group.” Well, maybe after Pokey.

What are we, chopped liver?!

Why, we invented the entire genre!! And you just know that Backstage Wife would have had you boys listening to every episode... why the thrilling opening alone... "Now, we present once again, Backstage Wife, the story of Mary Noble, a little Iowa girl who married one of America's most handsome actors, Larry Noble, matinée idol of a million other women — the story of what it means to be the wife of a famous star."

R126: Fabulous!! I send you a hug. R127: She was also in, "Petulia" with Julie Christie and George C. Scott.

Adding another vote for Santa Barbara.

And how the hell did Edge of Night not make the list? That’s deserves a spot in the top 3 OP.

[quote] My vote goes to ATWT, too. Watching Kathleen Widdoes with Lisa Brown, and Elizabeth Hubbard with Larry Bryggman was like watching great theatre.

Yes. The critic "Marlena DeLacroix" wrote a whole review of ATWT where she said it was like great repertory theater.

Which, as said back at R82, is often when all the stories are humming and everything is just clicking.

The City. end of thread.

Morgan, you left that show as soon as fast as your ass could carry you.

After the checks were cashed of course.

R125. The soap digest awards were a joke.

General Hospital, I love doctor movies. And Dominic Zamprogna handsome :)

The Speedo that launched a thousand orgasms.......

Including mine, r137!

R7, two favorite Lucinda/Liz ad libs were when she was trying to convince Barbara not to sell her Simply Barbara when Babara went off to jail.

"Darling, Simply Barbara without Barbara simply wouldn't be Simply Barbara."

and when Tonio dared to question Lucinda's continued friendship after he was the doghouse after Lucinda found out their affair; she snarked at him: "I like her! She's pretty! I like her!"

Adlibing is hard on the rest of the cast. That's one of the big reasons they didn't take Dorothy Lyman back on AMC. She would adlib most of her scenes.

I didn’t watch AMC but thanks to Soap Opera Digest and Christopher Schermering’s “Soap Opera Encyclopedia,” I learned a lot.

So did anybody else think that the end of the Jenny/Greg relationship was rather cruel to the viewers? Explosive water skis? That’s not a nice way to end a super couple.

It was definitely a letdown r141 and I assume its viewership was a ratings winner. I was postgrad then and I watched with my advisor and his wife, another prof, in his office, along with about five other students. Tight squeeze. We all groaned.

“Somerset” spun off from “Another World” before the LeMay golden age. Was AW already that popular in 1970?

Another World was in the top 5 the year Somerset premiered.

Agnes Nixon’s writing pushed it from near cancellation to 2nd place by 1968.

It was tied with ATWT for #1 or #2 in the ratings until 1978, when Gloria Monty and Doug Marland took over GH. Then it fell to 8th, plummeting to 12th when Beverlee McKinsey left.

Agnes had just left Guiding Light. I think I read she pissed off Irna because she kept killing off popular characters. Irna came back to write briefly. What happened to GL from 72-76? Its ratings went from top 3 to 8/9 then back up to top 4/5 from 76 through 85.

Y&R absolutely benefitted from its time slot. There’s no way it would have ascended to #1 in any other time slot. It was up against the low rated, old SFT and RH.

From what I understand GL was a mess storyline wise from the time Agnes left until the Dobsons came on board in 1975. Also, weren’t they in the same timeslot as Another World and General Hospital (which was highly rated in the early 70s)?

GH was not that much above GL and GL and only for 3 year then GL over took it by 1975. Agnes left GL in 1968. GL stayed top 3 until 1972 to ‘76.

R147 GL stayed top 3 until 1972, then fell to 8 or 9th until the Dobsons lit it up in 1975. Irna’s writing must’ve kept it going well until it hit a minor rough patch in 1972.

So, what stories caught on with GL when the Dobsons took over? What the hell made GH fall so sharply until it was almost canceled? What the hell is the Jingles the Clown story about? I need to know!

I want to know how Guiding Light was able to escape being labeled “old” and remained hip against the newer, younger ABC shows. Was it dropping the “The” from its name? J/K

In their first year, the Dobsons added Rita and tied her to Roger, then added the Marlers and began the Phillip paternity story. Maureen Garrett took over as Holly, and a year later the Spauldings arrived.

These stories all felt contemporary, unlike the other Proctor and Gamble shows. Doug Marland was able to build on these stories and provide very effective counter programming to GH.

General Hospital was in the doldrums from 1974 to 1977 or so. The show felt very old fashioned, with stilted dialogue, static direction, and cheap sets.

R118, GH also had a board game.

R150 Thank you!😘

I still have this somewhere.

Someone tell me about Jingles the Clown!!!!!!!!!!

R154 Never mind I found a synopsis on Reddit. It sounds like a bad ass storyline, completely engrossing, well written, scary. Love it!

Y&R did have the best production values and sets. When you switched channels and looked at the ABC soaps, the difference was noticeable. Bad, washed-out lighting and cheap sets.

Y&R had the Chancellor mansion with the crystal decanters, the Collonnade Room, The Embers more casual restaurant, and the Abbots’ house.

The hairstyles on Y&R were nice, too, except Nicki, whose hair looked like a thick, bleached blonde wig (with black roots before that became a thing).

AW was the best of the bunch in the 70s.

Did Y&R have the only fat girl?

Sometimes ratings had to do with time slot. In the 60s it was ATWT/GL 1 and 2 all decade. GL had the more competitive time slot so it lost out at #1. In the 70s, GH & AW got hot, they were up against perennial ratings giant GL so that time slot was the most competitive allowing ATWT to eek out #1.

R159 Yes, for a long stretch of time GH, GL and AW all were at or near the top because they had the end of day time slot.

YR has been #1 for years because it's at the lunch time slot.

R155, can you share that Reddit link?

Here is an episode of “Somerset” during the Jingles the clown story.

R158 Yes Traci Abbot, who was not that fat but compared to stick thin Lauren Fenmore, was a pig and had beautiful Ashely Abbot as a sister. There was one scene where she was working out trying to lose weight and there was Lauren in the gym purposely taking her measurements and yelling them out loudly so Traci knew who was the thin pretty princess. Bell carried that theme through in Bold and Beautiful with Katie Logan who had really bad skin rather being that fat girl.

Didn’t Lauren embarrass Traci by inviting her to a pool party but it was a regular party and Traci was the only one who showed up in a bathing suit?

I think it was a bikini party and Traci showed up in a one suit; Beth Maitland and Tracey Bregman are good pals in real life.

Bregman has said today you couldn't tell that story of someone calling someone else fat. It wouldn't fly.

This was a nice scene on Y&R-Lauren finally apologizes for fat shaming Traci.

The fat should always be shamed.

John nicknaming Ashley "Beauty" and Traci "Pumpkin" didn't really help matters.

Mami was always ready with the grapefruit, melba toast, and skim milk at break for Traci. The others got fat stacks of pancakes.

If you think that is bad, On B&B when Stephanie goes to Ridge to help get Eric, her husband back. Ridge takes her to a mirror and calls her a fat pig who lost her looks and if she wants him back she needs to lose a ton of weight and get plastic surgery.

Don't forget what old Bucky did to me.

Y&R did a fat storyline way, way back in the early days. In a weird twist, Mrs. Chancellor found herself sexually attracted to the now thin actress.

"The one thing I shall shall treasure, now and forever, is L-O-V-I-N-G !"

Was that the only soap with words to its theme music?

No r173. One Life, Passions, Another World, even Search had them at one time or other

“Ryan’s Hope” had lyrics. “Jere’s to Us” was the name of the song. “All My Children” had lyrics. YR had lyrics.

I had an album in the 80s with soap songs. And then there were the New Christy Minstrels with their 1976 album of soap themes. If the song was. Instrumental, they’d just sing the title randomly during the song.

Another World

As the World Turns

Disco “Young and the Restless..”a

r171 Stuck his big marker in you and created CJ?

Later years GL had lyrics.

GL had the BEST theme of all time in the mid 80s. I’ll die on that hill.

R161 Google “jingles the clown soap opera” and it comes up right on top.

Thanks, R181.

I would have loved the Jingles the Clown story. Soaps should have done more of those instead of the over the top “Ice princess” BS ridiculousness. I know GL did Sonni/Solita which got a bit dark (and so wonderful) and Brent/Marion which got really dark ( and really wonderful).

I loved Sonny/Solita. I missed a lot of it and maybe saw the last three months and I loved it. I do remember that it went on for a much longer time than expected due to the 1988 writer’s strike.

Does anybody remember the “Lisa at the inn” story from “As the World Turns” in the late 70s? Marland started that storyline and it has a lot of his hallmarks.

The serial killer story line on Days was interesting at the start and then the whole fake death, fake salem thing was just stupid.

The Salem Strangler and the Riverfront Knifer, now those were serial killers! None of this newfangled Necktie Killer bullshit.

My mom watched “Days” and “AW” and I always thought DOOL was boring, even when it was a fan favorite in the 80s. And then once Satan came to Salem, I just thought it was stupid. Maybe no longer boring but stupid.

I think Elizabeth Hubbard's ad-libs added tremendously to the character of Lucinda. She seemed real, not wooden, unlike many soap characters.

I hearts Jingles and Ivan Kipling

Sonni/Solita was epic. That was good fucking soap opera. The fact it went on so long, with all the twists and turns, plus Zimmer and Forbes locking acting horns was something to see!

Rosemary Prinz was damn resolute when she decided to do the first six months of AMC and that was it. Never returned.

Who did she play r192?

R193, she played Amy Tyler. She got a “special guest Star” billing in the opening credits.

Guiding Light

This has been a very informative, very respectful thread.

I thought Beth Ehlers from Guiding Light was going to have a breakout career. I remember even mainstream/non soap related media was talking her up.

Didn't Ehlers shit the bed at AMC by bitching about her war vet co-star?

Thought Jessica Tuck or Roger Howarth were going to break out. Same goes for Jonathan Jackson.

I guess Tom Pelphrey and Billy M. (From ATWT) came the closest from soaps of recent years. Did I miss someone?

I thought Heather Tom would bust out too.

Matt Bomer was on Guiding Light

Justin Hartley is a successful tv lead actor

Josh Duhamel has had a successful career beyond daytime.

Jesse Metcalfe has done very well for himself since leaving Passions.

Jensen Ackles is quite successful.

I excepted present-day Jon Hensley to be hotter than this:

although not on the list, I'd add RYAN'S HOPE. I think the best actors (generally) were on the NY soaps, particularly ATWT, OLTL and RYANS HOPE. I miss the soap channel and the old episodes of classic soaps. I think the Marland years at ATWT were by far the best, Barbara and Lucinda being the stars of that era. Judith Light on OLTL along with Sleak and Strasser and Helen Gallagher, Bernie Barrow and Ilene Kristen were the best. My husband and I have been watching old soap episodes on YouTube and the writing and storylines seem so much better than the few that are currently being produced. I just asked this on the other thread, but its kind of dead so maybe someone will know the answer here: Who is the actor who plays Barbar's doctor during her cancer storyline? My husband thinks his character was related to John Dixon, and he was on often at the time of this story. Does anyone know who he is? looks familiar, but can't place him. He's at the top of this clip

207 here, oops here's the link

R170, she showed them! She just got bigger and bigger

One soap critic called Stephanie a 'filing cabinet in a sports coat.'

I love how Flannery's last 5-10 years were a total victory lap with zero fucks to give. It was a joy to watch. What a broad.

Would have been Bold and the Beautiful, which at times used to, and still does utilize humor, and horror, but now its just become wildly stupid and almost deliberately, stupidly written. WTF

36 years later and this still makes me cry.

I know it’s weird to call someone with two Emmys “underrated” but I feel like Julia Barr isn’t talked about enough when the subject of best soap actors is brought up.

Laura’s tragic death kicked off years of great story for Brooke, and Julia Barr met each and every moment. After over a decade on the show, Brooke really came into her own during this time and became the show’s central heroine yet characters like Natalie, Dixie and (obviously) Erica had their own incredible stories. AMC was so balanced back then with so many well drawn characters.

Longtime AMC hater here- it was mom's show and a slog, I thought OLTL was THE only soap.

That clip at 212 is probably one of the TOP 10 best acted scenes in TV for me- ever- daytime/nighttime.

I can honestly say that Julia Barr was probably the Top 5 actor in all of daytime- male/female. You want to talk about an actor being "in the moment" without a false note- its that scene. And when she lets out that weird heave/yelp/laugh- its unnerving and very real-

Oddly enough, as they are both mentioned- Susan Flannery and Elizabeth Hubbard- I would put those 2 in the Top 10- I was into B&B on occasion and ATWT was a show that never interested me at all- but I would literally switch to ATWT during OLTL commercials just hoping to see "that lady". She was fucking mesmerizing. And I remember those Connor Jamison/"Walsh Take over scenes- had me watching the entire show for a week- she was that good. Never watched again- but it was like watching a really good film.

There was something about Barr that wa s so dignified. She embodied so much about the so-called modern woman. She was strong, independent, but also so very vulnerable.

Julia was the best actress on any soap at any time. She didn't start out that way but watching her grow was half the fun. Plus she was one of those actresses that had chemistry with any male lead they paired her with.

R216- Agree-- She did elevate every scene, and she certainly elevated the overrated Lucci in EVERY scene.

Whenever I had to watch AMC- SHE was the that I always found interesting. She gave complexity to that character and never really filled a heroine/victim/villian slot- It was like watching a real human being.

She is amazing.

Julia won the Emmy but I can't believe they put her in the supporting actress category. Jill actually looks quite beautiful when not dressed up as Opal. I'll always hate fakeOpal but she looks good.

Jill Larson to me is Ursulla Blackwell.

I was so happy to see her get such a major and coveted roll on AMC. (role)

Jill Larson was memorable in a small recurring role she had very early on in As the World Turns. She played gossip reporter Judith Clayton and was always popping up when she was least wanted. Even then, she had a really good presence.

Dorothy Lyman as Opal was one of those lighting in a bottle, once in a lifetime soap characters—she was electrifying, and packed a lot into the 2-3 years she was on the show.

Still, Jill Larson was a great replacement. She made Opal her own, and you couldn’t help but love her and root for her.

I loved Opal on Battle Star

Isn’t it funny how soaps appeal (or don’t) to different people. AMC was my favorite, always, but I couldn’t stand One Life to Live. I thought it was boring and full of ugly people..haha. But when I’d watch with friends, I did like Tina, of course. And Dorian. If they weren’t on, I was bored. Cord in a speedo wasn’t bad.

I hate people who make fun of soaps. They could never just let us enjoy the genre. They have no idea how important the shows were to people. I know it's corny as hell but when they axed my stories it was like having 50 or so family members die in one day.

Speaking of comedic talent, what about Marj Dusay? Remember when Palmer forced her to pluck and clean all those chickens to which she exclaimed "Pluck you".

Poor Dusay. She was talented and yet she was always brought in as the replacement (Myrna Clegg on “Capitol,” Pamela on “Santa Barbara”, Alex on “Guiding Light”) except maybe on AMC?

Even on “The Facts of Life,” Dusay was not the first actress to play Blair’s mom.

Dorthy Lyman was pretty much a one note. AMC, Mama's Family, and then B&B she played the same character over and over.

R228, she was a sophisticated career woman on AW.

How about Lyman’s character Elly Jo Jamison on “The Edge of Night”?

R224- Its true- The way you described OLTL is how I described AMC.

(I will give AMC this- I can see how folks liked it during that 82-84 era) It does have a VERY safe, comforting, and homey vibe. it was charming? And i really cannot say that I am surprised that it won this poll. And i can even see the appeal of Jenny/Greg and Angie/Jessie

The show's legendary humor was hokey to me(with the exception of Phoebe- that bitch was FUNNY- and I remember my grandparents loving Phoebe and them laughing their asses off)

R221 I think Marland saw Larson in a play and had a role in her being cast as Judith.

You saw how bitchy and opportunistic Judith could be when she interviewed Marsha Talbot during Kim's trial.

Odd...I can reference these near 40 year old stories like they were yesterday but I have little interest in today's Golden Age of TV.

AMC finally updated their intro at some point. I know it needed it, but I missed the original photo album and organ music. I found it comforting.

Kim Zimmer was the best actress. You could give her anything and she’d deliver every time. She was great from the start. She was also very funny. She was great at comedy, and knew how to deliver a line in the most cutting way.

ALL MY THEMES

Watching the early 2000s intros reminded me how much I loved Simone and Leo…and hated Ryan and Babe.

I could never stand AMC.

This has been a very respectful thread. I think it is we are just enjoying hearing about other soaps we didn’t watch or didn’t watch much plus the different storylines. I started checking out Brent/Marion on GL and love it. I also checked out Jingles the Clown and damn, love it.

What’s is tragic is P&G erased most of their shows episodes prior to 1979. Literally taped over them. How tragic! All that soap history is gone. We are talking iconic shows like GL, ATWT histories erased.

I love that story, R215. I loved Lucinda. She was always entertaining. There was a scene when Lucinda and several others were sitting on a couch and the phone rang. Something must have gone wrong with props as nobody could find the phone and the actor who played her long-suffering lawyer Ambrose pulled it from under his thigh and without skipping a beat, Hubbard laughed and went, “You’re sitting on it! You silly thing!” and Lucinda went right on answering her phone.

AWs best years r236.

In 1991, they seemed to be steering Duncan in Lucinda’s direction and when she was depressed after losing Walsh Enterprises, Duncan came by and Michael Swan ran on screen dripping wet in a Speedo and I almost lost it.

Swan was apparently an ass (he broke Margaret Reed’s heart) but damn he looked good.

No telling what I'd pay for a complete series DVD of AMC, OLTL, and Loving. I really have a soft spot for loving. It had to be really tight because it was only a 1/2 hour. I started that in the summer of 8th grade and followed it to the end. I was never disappointed except for the loss of original Curtis and fucking up the Lilly character. A whole epp of Loving

I heard that the AMC studios were so small that they had to truck in the sets from Jersey EVERY DAMN DAY. They should have just filmed in Jersey. Was OLTL filmed in the same studio?

Soap Opera Digest used to go on and on around 1987 about how fabulous the sets were for “Loving.”

General Hospital, though it revived the genre and I give it a bow, was the worst.

Heard a GH story that producers made Steve Bond start wearing swim shorts as his bikinis were showing too much.

I knew AMC would win but I’m glad the underrated “Concerning Miss Vance” is getting a respectable backing.

R239 He's a hardcore MAGA now but even a few years ago he looked hot as fuck.

He had a long line of women at ATWT who wanted to fuck him, date him or marry him. And probably a few of the guys too.

HURRY UP OPALS ON!

Heard every time someone went for a snack or the bathroom, during the commercials, and took too long.

The one soap opera I'd like to see from the start is The Edge of Night. Froma Wiki page: The Edge of Night played on more artistic levels than probably any other soap of its time. It was unique among daytime soap operas in that it focused on crime, rather than domestic and romantic matters. The police, district attorneys, and medical examiners of fictional Monticello, United States, dealt with a steady onslaught of gangsters, drug dealers, blackmailers, cultists, international spies, corrupt politicians, psychopaths, and murderous debutantes, while at the same time coping with more usual soap opera problems like courtship, marriage, divorce, child custody battles, and amnesia.

And it had few writers, so it was focused (probably until its final years).

Murderous debutantes? I am so in!

There used to be a website for the show, but all I get now is an Error 404.

There were over 7,400 episodes, just 1,800 are in syndication... I hope someone has all of the scripts.

[quote] Heard a GH story that producers made Steve Bond start wearing swim shorts as his bikinis were showing too much.

I know of one Guiding Light actor from later years that had to be told to wear long cut boxer briefs because his dick was both big (VPL) and also long enough that the head would slip out of the bottom of the regular mid cut ones.

Phillip's dong!

We've all seen Steve Bond's dick, haven't we?

I watched a lot of Edge of Night in the 60s & 70s. It had the coolest theme music, even early on. You knew it was not the average soap. It had some of the romantic and domestic plots of all the others but crime of some kind was forefront. Both my living grandparents, from different sides of the family and hated each other, grandpa and gran, watched together.

Harry Slesar, who was the Edge of Night head writer from 1968-83 won an Edgar Award from the Mystery Writers of America for his work on EON.

Steve and his dong. God he was fucking gorgeous.

Look at Kin. Looking like he actually stands a chance.

Kin has humor, something Steve can't even spell.

Edge of Tomorrow. Honor St. Raven was a hoot.

R250 this particular actor wasn't the guy who played Philip tho

r236- I am really trying to behave myself. I only joined DL in 2001 (I was 22!!) because OLTL was THE soap here... It kills me to see how no one talks about it here anymore and is basically last in the major categories in this poll.

That was my show of all time (now joined by The Sopranos, The Comeback, Mad Men, Beef -in my personal pantheon)

But AMC was my mom's show and it actually makes me happy to see the love for it here. And I always had my eyes glued on Julia Barr when she was on-

I am pulling for GL- a show I watched for 3 months in 88- and was blown away.

I have revisited it's different "primes" on Youtube and it was a damn fine show.

Mad respect for that show facing GH in 1984 and doing insanely well- and beating OLTL!!!!

OLTL looked like a stodgy old fashioned fucking mess in that 83-84 era- Just plain old stodgy.

R237- That lady was AMAZING- I used to watch the daytime emmys and just be amazed by her little clips that they would show!!!

My fave was "Ambrose- wait for it! Wait for it! Sierra is considering going BACK TO MONTEGA, to give Craig- SPACE!--- SPACE!!????

I also HIGHLY recommend the Fairman interview with Martha and Elizabeth- Elizabeth was an absolutely creative actress- You really need to watch the interview-

I came away even more of a fan.

She must have been utterly infuriating to work with- and absolutely enthralling to work with for actors wanting to walk a tightrope. She had an incredible mind.

R242- Holy shit! I thought Loving was garbage but the show DID LOOK GOOD in that 87-89 era! I actually noticed that on Youtube! That was Joe Stuart- and they also had good background music, and I learned that they also used Score Productions like OLTL. OLTL had the BEST background music under Rauch- Michel Camilo was the composer and he still tours today.

Loving looked better than AMC and OLTL.

I liked Lisa Peluso.

R259 was that Fairman or Locher?

The Locher Room with Liz and Martha is probably one of the best, if not THE best session Alan Locher ever did

YES! sorry- i meant Locher!!!! And we clearly saw the same interview.

Liz was a true artist and genius and that interview proved it. It was fascinating.

I wish that she lived to be 100- she seemed like the kind of woman who would.

As I’ve said multiple times in this thread, AMC was my show, but my God, ATWT was so good in the back half of the 80s. I hated Lily, but I loved pretty much everyone else and most of the storylines. Lisa Brown was so good as downtrodden Iva (and so different from Nola on GL), of course Liz/Lucinda and her shenanigans, but also a couple of underrated actresses—the sexy and interesting Melanie Smith as Emily and Jennifer Ashe as Meg, the Snyder troublemaker. GREAT scene when she and Josh illicitly did it out on the Snyder Eavesdropping Porch! Jennifer was also the original Lily on Loving—I watched that the first year or so and it was a great soap..until it wasn’t.

Loved Shannon and Duncan and their troubles with his crazy ex wife. Loved the Tom/Margo/Barbara triangle (but hated when Gregg Marx left and Scott Holmes took over) and how they used all the vets. Lastly, ATWT had one of my two favorite soap actresses ever, Julianne Moore. (The other is Kate Collins, AMC). She drove two of my favorite soap storylines, the Douglas Cummings mystery and the Frannie/Seth/Sabrina story. OMG, how I wanted to be with Seth Snyder..in the moonlight..at the pond..I would have even let him call me Frannie!

I *had* to vote for AMC, but if I could’ve voted twice, I would have voted for ATWT. I’m glad they are the Top 2 in this poll!

Voting for Y&R. The only show to have a black man masquerade as a white man to catch a racist crime boss by getting engaged to his daughter. Suprise bitch I am black!

R265- Y&R could win for me and I would have no issues.

Y&R was my other show next to OLTL.

The production alone, makes it Top 3.

Cassandra Rawlins

Sheila Carter

David Kimball/Nina

Victoria/Ryan

Victor (Sorry I am a huge Braeden fan)

Nikki

Katherine

It could make the most over the top and also cliche storylines seem classy and elevated. Just due to the quality of the production-

I even loved the stylized and trite dialogue.

Y&R ruled. And it made every other show look cheap.

Linda Gottlieb thought she made her show look cinematic in 1993 when Y&R looked like that in 1980.

Were "reformed rapist" storylines really popular among viewers? They seemed ubiquitous.

The hotness

R263 yes, I loved it. I was madly in love with her before and even more so after. She was just.....I need to go back and watch it again, so much wisdom.

R269- It was not just a lesson for actors, that video and her vibe/wisdom was a lesson for living.

And this is someone who watched maybe 9 hours of ATWT in total. Maybe another 5 hours on YT.

It's that fucking good.

Didn't Larry Bryggman continually trash the soap genre?

And mind you- I never discovered pre 1988 Y&R until YT around 2015? (i am 44)

That Jack/Jill shit from 1985 is the GOLD STANDARD. Just perfect.

Holy fuck! (I consider this on par with 85-86 OLTL which was- epic)

Bill Bell was the plotting MASTER. i love the slow, slow burn.

I wish there were more OLTL/Y&R fans- there were not two more opposite shows in the 80's, and they were such a great combo.

R271- He did. But it paid his bills so he could do theatre.

Poor guy, working with Elizabeth Hubbard.

Also on a show that was critically lauded.

It does make him sound like a cunt.

Another great Hubbard ad-lib:

When Craig returns, he goes to breakfast at the Snyder farm. Lucinda barges in and says to him, "You didn't write, you didn't call. Mohommed didn't come to the mountain, so the mountain, she's come to you."

(around 4:20 below)

^^^ meant 40:20

R264 yes, ATWT was everything for about 2 and a half years. For all the reasons and actors you listed.

The Marland era had a few bumps.....one was at the beginning of 1988, when Martha Byrne, Julianne Moore and Hillary Bailey Smith all left within a short period (I think Hillary came and went a few times in 88 and may have been on maternity leave - but she was away a lot and left completely at the end of the year). The momentum of the show hit a wall.

There was a lull in 1989 as a result....and then the insipid and never ending Carolyn Crawford story in 1990-91.

ATWT got a bit of its momentum back with Ellen Dolan's Margo - first with the euthanasia story and then her rape. But losing Frannie and Sabrina, and then having the Lily with Pinched Sphincter Syndrome, kinda changed the vibe, and ATWT didn't get really close to the old vibe again until Marland's last year (and Byrne's return).

But oh man, 1985-87 was classic soap, all the way through.

I watched the scenes after Lily found out about Iva and Josh, the scenes between Lisa Brown, Larry Bryggman and Liz Hubbard. Just masterful. It was like good theater at least 2 or 3 of the five days a week.

r268 Roscoe was beautiful. I don't know why he was always cast as such a dark, demented character.

I remember when Roscoe died. How all the women he worked told stories of how they would all fall in love with him. Cook him dinners, ask him out, flirt on the set...LOL including Robin Strasser. Supposedly Robin was head over heels in love with him.

Roscoe Born's Mitch was like the pulsating cum that pumped through OLTL.

He really made OLTL- HOT.

Look at clips from 83-84- It was like a 1940's melodrama.

I wanted to be in a Gerry Anthony/Roscoe Born sandwich.

In college I had a fuck buddy who looked a whole lot like Marco Dane and was likely somehow connected to the mob - I didn't ask, though.

A very young Roscoe on Ryan's Hope

If you can dig up some clips somewhere, and want to see a quality soap, way ahead of it's time, see if you can find some Love is a Many Splendored Thing.

The early Doctors was also very good. Speaking of Liz Hubbard.

There was a point where it almost seemed like an American version of EastEnders....something not about rich people and drama.

Then it sorta went to melodrama and normal soap bullshit.

I heard Mary Hartman is being rebooted with that Hampshire woman in the title role.

Guiding Light wins in the end, for the history and consistency, minus the dreadful final two years that looked like a cheap knockoff of the preceding 70 (save the accidental chemistry turned slightly sapphic Otalia, which I kinda was stunned and pleased by.). The thing about GL is that it had so many fits of greatness through the years (fuck, even Rauch's first year was prime stuff - pardon me while I miscarry, refuse treatment, just so I can throw myself down a flight of stairs later at a party so I can blame my husband's not-dead ex-wife and get her on trial for murder). Killing Maureen Bauer in 1993 was the dagger to the heart of what was the-then 'old GL' - I'm guessing those in the 80s heard fans from the 70s crying the same foul when it was suddenly all Reardons - of which Maureen was the last one of - not to mebtion the atrocious treatment of Michael Zaslow after his ALS diagnosis also really soured me, yet I stayed til the end anyway.

[quote]pardon me while I miscarry, refuse treatment, just so I can throw myself down a flight of stairs later at a party so I can blame my husband's not-dead ex-wife and get her on trial for murder).

And win an Emmy for doing all that too!

Julianne, Martha, and Hillary leaving -- all major blows. I missed Hillary the most.

Despite this, circa June 1990, ATWT was ranked No. 2.

AMC sure packed a lot of story for Natalie during the 7 years Kate Collins was on the show. I know the recast was terrible, but they should have never killed off Natalie.

What a great thread.

I think Lemay's pre 90-minute AW is the best soap run ever but for the long run I'd probably pick GL. Yes, it sucked for the last five years or so but so did everything else. I never liked Y&R even though I loved Bill Bell's Days, and Bold and the Beautiful was trash from the start.

R288- Kate Collins left a huge void when she departed AMC. Yes, they still had the likes of Susan Lucci and Julia Barr, but Natalie had become such a focal point, I really felt her absence. Thankfully Sarah Michelle Gellar came along and proved delightfully distracting but the show never really never felt the same to me. Robin Mattson was a very disappointing Janet because AMC kept up its tradition of reforming compelling villainesses. The less said about Melody the better. Truly awful.

Did ANYBODY really think Lucci was that good of an actor?

[quote]Bold and the Beautiful was trash from the start

r22 would like a word

B&B only made it all due to the Sheila/Lauren crossover in 93? 94?

Even the brilliant Susan Flannery, Darlene Conley, and the very underrated Katherine Kelly Lange would not have salvaged that show-

I always liked John McCook too.. I found him very believable as Eric.

B&B wasn't made by Kimberlin Brown joining the show. It was made by being one of the top shows on television outside of the United States.

R295- I meant in the USA, Mr. Brad Bell!!

and there is no accounting for the bad taste of Europe!

I remember ads for B&B in 1994 where Thorne and Macy were a huge singing duo. They were introduced on stage by Sally. I was like, “The fuck is this?” It seemed like they were from the late 70s/ early 80s with the cheesiness and outfits. This was at the apex of grunge and “alternative” music.

A friend said that the show was big in Europe so they fashioned the duo for a European music loving audience.

I couldn't stand Nina on Y&R. All she needed was a side pony-tail to complete her look.

[quote] If you think that is bad, On B&B when Stephanie goes to Ridge to help get Eric, her husband back. Ridge takes her to a mirror and calls her a fat pig who lost her looks and if she wants him back she needs to lose a ton of weight and get plastic surgery.

I vaguely remember this. My cousin (a guy) could do a really good impression of Ridge Forrester. My sister can do a good impression of Victor Newman (but she has to be wearing a jacket).

B&B was only good when that bull dyke Stephanie was menacing that whore Brooke.

r273 if I looked like Larry Bryggman, I might be a cunt, too.

R300- Two of the BEST soap award show moments ever are these- These were DOOZIES----

I believe it was the SOD awards in 1989 or so? My cousin and I were watching and we were maybe 10 and 8 years old--

The chicks who played Robin and Anna on GH were the presenters. Robin was my age- Maybe younger- A little girl.

Anna hands Robin the envelope to announce the award- Which was "Best Storyline'--

With a big old smile on her face this little girl merrilly squeaks out:

AND THE WINNER IS -

"EDENS RAPE!!!!!!!!!"

My cousin and I looked at each other and died laughing

Next one- One of Susan Flannery's later emmy wins- when she was in full on- PROUD BULLDYKE mode--

The 2 nitwit presenters- both from B&B announce the Best Actress Category and go APESHIT when they realize its Susan Flannery-

They shriek out her name while jumping up and down to the point where Susan Lucci and others- (Susan L was hosting, and has the camera on her backstage) many thought they said Susan Lucci. Bulldyke Rosie is telling Susan Lucci that she won. Susan Lucci is saying "Me?? ME?? or is it Susan FLANNERY!!? Susan L proceeds to start walking onstage-- This is all LIVE and fucking hilarious as shit.

Anyway, someone clearly stopped Susan L barely in time- The camera cuts off Susan L just as the spotlight hits her face (the bitch was onstage and ready to get emmy #2)

THEN---- Susan Flannery BARRELS onto that stage like a teamster in a Men's Tux, LIFTS UP/PICKS UP THE ACTRESS presenting (Adrienne Frantz??) like a man would do to a woman-she was also making a very guttural deep throated laugh- I cannot even describe how fucking hilarious this was. I thought she was going to finger bang Adrienne...

Lastly- the Best part was seeing how Susan Lucci REALLY is in life. You could tell that she probably through a SHITFIT later on- There was something very driven/intense about her in that moment- Like if you fuckers are wrong- I will destroy you (She knew they said Flannery) They may have even played the AMC theme music- but that may be my faulty memory.

And by the way-- The Susan Flannery moment above reminds me so much of that moment in Best In Show where manly Jane whatshername kisses Stifler's Mom in their "coming out" moment.. It gives me life it is so funny..

R301- When I typed that last night I was actually thinking about how ugly that guy was. HA!

I could watch that dyke backhand that slut from. The Valley all day

R300, I think that's one of the shows Flannery won of her 3 DT Emmys for playing Stephanie.

Bill Bell was a freaking genius. He knew his audience. How many mothers see their sons marry women they despise and know are 100% wrong for their boys.

Watching Stephanie abuse Brooke was mother-in-law porn.

Katherine Kelly Lang will never be a great actress. But she IS Brooke Logan Forrester. She read all caps big stage directions that tell her that Brooke is in love and she plays it. If she didn't, it wouldn't work.

Stephanie had a great line to Brooke once she delivered in front of the family before fessing up to lying about her heart attack: 'We know your story. Everything you say is exactly what you mean [at the time]. Well, I can't live in a world where love us served up like fast food; Hot one minute, cold and greasy the next.

Ridge (Ron Moss): very wooden actor.

There were other times when Flannery could sum up their relationship in a few little words, without raising her voice, like on hearing of Brooke's latest antics. She'd give that superior smirk and say, "Brooke is such a bitch," and shake her head and chuckle. I'd be laughing and have to rewind to catch the rest.

R307 = Thorsten Kaye, constipated actor

Susan Flannery was great in that role (mother of Ridge in B&B). You can see she was a beautiful woman, in her day. Still beautiful, actually. She did put on weight, which was actually OK and good for the role.

R308- Susan F is one of he greats.. I really loved her in more 'calm" scenes for that very reason- She never hit a false note and came across as formidable.

"Not Young, Still Restless": A good book by Jeanne Cooper (Mrs. Chancellor on Y&R). Get or borrow the audio book. Very entertaining.

Great description, r311.

But I so loved her eruptions as well.

Yup, the dynamic between Susan Flannery and the Brooke character was really good. (Mother-in-law / daughter-in-law.)

R302- will you please be my best friend? You are fucking hilarious.

R315- I want to have a youtube channel to share my fucked up observations but I am too offensive.

You can trolldar me.

My fear of Amy Roloff and midgets would cancel me immediately.

Just typing those 2 memories had me laughing my ass off-

Me and my cousin still scream "EDENS RAPE" at each other once a month..

Wasn't the Lucci/Flannery mixup when Rosie O was presenting?

I remember there was widespread confusion about who won, but I think part of it was the presenter's fault.

Rosie may actually have been hosting with Lucci and Braeden????

But I can assure you Adrienne Frantz and one of the "ricks" was presenting.

I will never , ever forget it!!

I switched to B&B for a while. More like I added it to what I was watching. I did it for the mom on Wonder Years. She was fucking funny as hell. When she tied that girl up and the cabin and let the bear in. Now that's some soap genius right there. I dropped it after a while because there was nothing else of interest for me in the show.

R267, yes. Daytime had anti-heroes long before Tony Soprano and the like.

2,000+ episodes of B&B have been uploaded on YouTube by the show itself (so they won't be deleted). You can watch from the very first episode.

Some say that Sheila saved the show which may be true but the introduction of that character also made the show much cheesier than it had been. (Bradley taking over around that time probably didn't help). In the beginning, the show was rather restrained. It was centered around the classic soap opera story of rich family coming into contact and conflict with a poorer family with lots of drama flowing based on the past histories of the families and the current relations between them.

The show's cast was extremely beautiful at this point although some of them were little more than glorified hair models. But it had a lot of recasts and the beauty factory took a nose dive. I hate the second Thorne.

R271, I don’t think Larry B trashed the genre as much as he was honest about the fact that ATWT was a great paycheck that allowed him to continue to work in theater, his first love… a privilege he wouldn’t have had without the money from daytime.

I saw him in a Mamet play and he was mesmerizing.

Michael Park did tell a really funny story about a time when he (Michael Park) was having a bit of an argument with the brass. The fracas was apparently holding up production. Larry B. was off stage miming a movement. An angry Park asked him what he was doing. Larry B. dryly replied that he was a homemaker viewer vacuuming while Park’s scene was airing. Park said that exchange gave him perspective.

I served Don Diamont a drink back in the '80s. He was very handsome, smaller than I expected. Very polite and wanted to make sure that I received a tip / gratuity.

The early years of B&B were an almost beat for beat rehash of the early years of Y&R.

I found Ron Moss hot in the early years of B&B but what a limited actor.

Moss was frequently shown in Speedos or bikini underwear in the early years.

r294 just in case you were not aware - The Bold and the Beautiful (B&B) has been ranked second in soap opera ratings since the early 1990s, except for one week when it broke Y&R's 27-year streak. In 2019, The Young and the Restless (Y&R) had a 3.1 rating, while B&B had a 2.5 rating. However, globally, B&B has the largest audience, with an estimated 27 million viewers

I think that B&B was intended to eventually become a one-hour show (rather than a half-hour show). However, B&B was one of the relatively newer soaps. By the time it hit its stride, soaps in general were waning and it was probably a good idea to keep it a half-hour show.

And, yes, I agree that B&B's premise (rich family, poor family) was just like Y&R.

The difference between B&B and Y&R was the tie between Eric, Beth and Stephanie. Just from the beginning, there was so much to use throughout the years. Ridge not being Eric's child and Eric picked Stephanie over Beth because he thought she was pregnant. Stephanie's family funding Forrester Creations. The horror of both Beth and Stephanie when it was revealed Brooke, her daughter was fucking Eric. That long history of Stephanie fucking with the Logan family and Brook replaying it in kind by fucking every many in Stephanie's life was just brilliant.

BB was complete trash and hard to watch, so I didn’t. Y&R was overrated.

R328, not entirely true.

B&B first hit No. 3 in the spring of 1990; then it hit No. 2 in the fall of 1992 with the Shela/Lauren dream showdown.

In the mid 1990s, AMC, GH, and DAYs all beat out B&B for the No. 2 or 3 slot.

DAYS came within 3/10ths of a ratings point of tying Y&R in 1997; Reilly's exit led to DAYS dropping in the ratings.

R330, you compare all that history now to the endless who cares boardroom stories on Y&R.

UG.

I saw a little video with film clips of the early years of YR and how they really used lighting, or rather lack of it, to really create a mood. It looked gorgeous.

The ABC soaps like AMC, OLTL and GH all seemed to utilize a lot of bright lighting.

Ridge not being Eric's son was a re-write, wasn't it? I don't think that was the idea from the beginning.

In the beginning, Ridge however was clearly Stephanie's favorite, while Eric preferred Kristen. Ridge and Eric frequently butted heads. I still don't understand why Bell wrote Kristen out of the show after 2 years - only to bring in the other daughter Felicia who was horrible was also really stupid.

R324 Don used to tip all the handsome young men very generously.

I wish the other soaps would follow B&B's lead and post all their older episodes. Otherwise, they're just sitting in a dark room somewhere.

Yes r334, they did seem bleached. In the 70s AW seemed rich colored with more close ups. Days too. Edge too.

The first time I watched Days in the 70s I was blown away at how they vocalized the character thoughts on a regular basis. But it didn't take long for me to see this as a cheat. Other shows were letting us devine character motives in their actions.

Of course this was 70s when almost all soaps were character motivated. If anything, back then, ATWT was one of the worst for plot driven stories. Accidents out of nowhere, that laughable tornado music, immensely entertaining though.

R328- suck it. 1990s Rankings: #1: The Young and the Restless; #2: All My Children; #3: General Hospital

R332 Another World lost almost half its audience between 1977 and 1980 per that page. And it never recovered.

I read Harding LeMay's book some years ago. Very entertaining but he comes off as an ass. But he did know how to write a daytime serial and clearly AW never recovered after he left.

I've read his book as well, r339, and he is a total diva writer. But brilliant.

I once saw an amazing interview of Bev MacKinsey with Canadian interviewer Brian Linehan after her departure from TEXAS. As I remember she was justifiably resentful of writers' salaries versus actors'.

Didn’t LeMay have a hand in some of GL’s brilliant writing at one point?

He was a staff writer at GL in 1980-1 under Marland - which was when GL was in one of its prime periods. Actually GL from c. 1975-1982 was when it peaked.

OMG when you wrote "I hate Nina" I wanted to slap you. Then I realized you were talking about the little piglet on Y&R and not our Nina Cortlandt. Nobody hates our Nina.

I love Nina Webster.

Me too-- How could anyone hate Nina W??

Great story, r323.

If Kathleen Widdoes ends up outliving both Elizabeth Hubbard and Larry Bryggman, then Emma Snyder will get the last laugh.

R339 I said the early 1990s, not 1990 and be sure you are looking at overall audience because most soap magazines reported the 18-25 and 25 to 34 female audience (which skewed heavily to DOOL) because that was who bought Soap Opera Digest. The Young and The Restless has been number one longer than most Gen Z ers have been alive. The only show to unseat it from #1 was B&B, and only briefly. At the time GH, Days and B&B jockied for #2 until the Sheila crossover put them in a deathlock hold on #2.

Every soap opera thread that’s EVER been on DL, including this one, more than once, the same person brings up how they hated the “lighting” on AMC 🤣

It’s a personal preference, I guess. I hated the way the Bell soaps looked..the cheesy closeups and the dark backgrounds..

In her book Jeanne Cooper said that Melody Thomas Scott's husband (Y&R bigwig) would take forever lighting MTS. Husband now works on B&B.

Even big Lucci fans, like myself, have never claimed she’s one of the best-ever soap actresses. However, no one can deny her charisma, her “It Factor,” or take away from her the fact that she’s the greatest soap star ever. “Star” not actress. And she DID deserve the Emmy the year she won. The episodes she submitted (Bianca’s eating disorder intervention)— I remember watching those with my friend and we just KNEW she’d won the Emmy. Her best performance—and those episodes were some of AMC best writing and directing. IIRC, the episodes were only Erica, Bianca, Jack, Barbara, and Travis at the intervention.

MARY! me as much as you want, but I did a Princess Diana scream when Lucci won.

If '75-82 GL (Dobson's and Marland era, right?) are the glory days, this would lays at the the feet of Gail & Pam the shark that was jumped. I say this as someone who knew of it but didn't watch a lot of it GL at that point (was home sick from school with Roger/Holly hall of mirrors), but bought the GL Anniversary book in '97 (told you I was hardcore) and was able to fill in a lot of the blanks after it. Gail & Pam's show was a totally different show, i.e. the Lewises and declining Bauers. Might I say it leaned into it's cheesiness and that was a letdown? Or did the eventual poisoning of the town plotline by the Revasaurus (I love Kim but come on, she flosses with scenery in it all - Amish Reva, the Clone, san criscohell, travels through time by stepping through a painting - aside from giving her Pelphrey as a kid, she got nothing of quality from the many, many examples of death by a thousand cuts those last fifteen years. The number of times I felt as a viewer like I must have absolutely no bar for what one might call quality television was massive, and yet I stayed, because, well, history, and it connected me to my grandmother, a memory that stayed alive whenever I would watch.

Completely understood, slack

R335, Teri wasn't the best actress, and she may have given an interview poo-poohing her character; that's the kiss of death under Bill.

R348 GL was #2, 3, 4 for many weeks in ‘92 before they lost 3 of their top actresses within 3 months of each other during the height of their storylines.

R349 There was indeed a time where a few of the NYC soaps had harsh overhead lightings. Both AMC and OLTL, for sure, and GL had it in the 80s too.

I don't know if it was a particular studio, or some bad lighting designer that made his/her way to all the aforementioned shows.

As much as I loathe ubercunt Jill Farren Phelps, she did make all her shows look less like they were filmed in a fucking DMV.

I'm very curious about this 1954 show "Woman With a Past". Starring the one and only Connie Ford as dressmaker Lynn Sherwood, who moves to a new town with her illegitimate daughter Diane. As the series develops Lynn holds fashion shows in her dress shop!

It also starred Jean Stapleton and ran for 6 months, with each episode 15 minutes in length.

According to IMDb, Victoria Wyndham also starred in Woman With a Past as a "temporary replacement for Felice Camargo as Diane".

R357 It may have been one of VW's first roles. And if she was a temp replacement for Felice Camargo....that was her sister.

Felice and Victoria's dad

And VW's son

While there must be no copies of Woman with a Past still in existence, we can rest assured there would have been cunt bones aplenty kicked on that show.

Taylor Miller was the prettiest soap actress of all time.

R352, of course Kobe and Long (and Jeff Ryder) brought a very different flavor to GL.

I longed for the Dobson and especially Marland eras; Doug wrote towns that you wanted to live in; who wouldn't want to be befriended by Bert Bauer, have a legal issue taken care of by Ross Marler, had illnesses tended to by Dr. Ed Bauer, and make friends with Hillary and Kelly (swoon!)

I was prepared not to like Kobe and Long -- Hey! That actor is from TEXAS! I don't want them in Springfield!

But then something happened -- I fell in love with Kobe and Long's vision. Sure, they made big mistakes, getting rid of Hope, Amanda, and Hillary.

I think if they had longer to think about it they might have thought differently and kept them -- especially Amanda.

Rita, Holly, Carrie -- all gone. But we got Alexandera, India, and Reva Shayne. The Four Musketeers. Sonni/Solita. It was a different golden age.

R362, she had that certain something. She was the best ingenue I've ever seen on daytime TV and why she never made the transition to mainstream star I'll never know. She was on Merv Griffin to accept a soap award and Merv exclaimed "you're like a young Elizabeth Taylor" to which Miller quipped "I don't have a 19 inch waist".

R297 Jeff and Bobbie as a singing duo were insanely popular across Europe. Here they sing a version of Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan's duet "Especially for You" before tens of thousands of fans.

Footage from this concert also features in a Bold and Beautiful episode just before Macy undergoes vocal cord surgery.

It's a pity Jeff Trachta didn't get all his facial work done while he was still on Bold. He was a lot more classically handsome after, and would have been a better match with Ridge.

I saw an interview with Taylor Miller where she stated that she basically played Nina as herself. Except for a few exaggerations she was Nina.

R367, you've got to be kidding. Those cheek implants ...

R294 Kimberlin Brown was an example of hiring a fashion model to act on a soap which paid off. Kimberlin was discovered by Nina Blanchard who also discovered Linda Dano 15 years earlier. She allowed her girls to be a half inch shorter than they would need to be in NY so they could work double duty as extras and under-fives in LA.

I truly think Kimberlin Brown has been in more soaps than anyone. Nine of them.

Does anyone have a link to the latest Days thread?

Eakes told a story about how Trachta walked into the main makeup room when he came to screentest for the role of Jack Abbott when they were looking to replace Lester.

Eakes turned to TV mom Darlene Conley and said: "I'm going to marry that man."

What a cut instinct thing to say and to have occur.

This is the interview r341 mentioned-it is long but interesting. Beverlee’s story about Ruth Warrick’s obnoxious behavior is anusing.

[quote][Taylor Miller] had that certain something.

Well, she didn't bring it with her to Another World.

I remember Taylor Miller came back for a short stint and she had a scene with David Canary. They both played it as if there was a little spark between them, and they did indeed have huge chemistry in just that one scene. That would’ve been a fantastic storyline- Palmer’s most beloved daughter falling in love with his archenemy. He would’ve lost his mind. Adam and Nina would’ve been incredible.

[quote] Beverlee’s story about Ruth Warrick’s obnoxious behavior is anusing.

Ruthie's behavior does make one's anus clench, for sure.

R356-

I can only speak for OLTL because I would read any article I could as a kid- I thought the technical side was cool on these shows because each show really had its own look and feel back then, production wise-

Overall the executive producer is responsible for establishing the show's look/aesthetic that they want-

The guy who lit OLTL from the late 70's to nearly the end of the show was Michael Thorburgh (Thornborough?)

When Linda Gottlieb brought OLTL the cinematic lighting she said that she hired the best Lighting Designer at ABC in to redo the lighting. (It was then the 2 Lighting Designers job to carry that out day to day) The show was as dark as Y&R if not darker.. Some of the episodes on Youtube you can barely see , it was that dark. OLTL kept that darker/cinematic look pretty much until the end. Gary Tomlin made the show a little brighter- it almost looked pink. I did not like his aesthetic.

Michael also lit the show under Paul Rauch. After watching Paul Rauch's AW- which looked REALLY good, I have no idea why he wanted OLTL to have the look it did, but based on the interview I read with OLTL Lighting Designers (Michael was interviewed above) He said that Paul wanted OLTL to look and feel upbeat and contemporary- and for the actresses eyes to shine. If you watch that era, the actresses eyes almost glisten and you see the light in their eyes at all times. I believe this lighting also prevented shadows which can age someone, but it also required that heavy makeup the actors had. By 1989 one of he magazines said the actors all looked orange on OLTL..

Joe Stuart had an interview where he seemed interested in the technical side and making OLTL look better with the sets/lighting- This episode from 1980 has the show looking pretty good if you ask me. Its bright, but not washed out and the actors all look good.

And I have to say GL (for a short period?) was probably the worst looking show that I have ever seen- I think it was the 79-81 era or so, this is from Youtube? I don't know why they made such a great show look so cheap. I will say under JFP, the show (GL) looked stellar- and it really matched the quality at that time (I have mainly just rediscovered GL through YT- I only watched the summer of 88 as a young kid)

While AMC and ATWT were my favorites in the mid/late 80s, I also got hooked on AW for a few years during that era. I liked Cass and Kathleen, and loved when Cecile would turn up to fuck with them. Loved Anna Stuart as Donna, and the whole Marley/Vicki thing when played by Ellen Wheeler. Jane Cameron (WHET?) was a fun ingenue as Ada’s troublesome daughter Nancy (although at first I thought they were grandmother/granddaughter). Felicia and Wallingford..fun.

And then there was twink Matthew Crane in a speedo all summer..

r373 that's odd. Y&R and B&B don't share a make-up room. They are shot on different sound stages (across from each other) and the Y&R make-up room is upstairs. Not that I am doubting Bobbie's retelling of it, I guess they could have test shot on stage 33 if Y&R was still shooting. It was very fast with Jeff replacing Clayton Norcross, He showed up to test for Jack and was cast as Thorne within a week. Clayton was so god damn handsome it was odd that they chose Jeff, who is handsome but not like Ronn Moss steel cut cheekbones. The story goes Brad and Bill wanted to capitalize on Bobbie's singing and Jeff hammed up his audition and the fact he could sing. It game them the singing duo, Thorne and Macy and a Romeo and Juliett storyline for the two. I remember that concert you posted. It was in Italy or Greece (where B&B is insanely popular). they taped the whole episodes around that with Macy constantly worrying she could not sing then come out and belts out all these tunes. I think even John McCook sang a song "Nothing's going to change my love for you" and the whole crowd sang along.

Someone needs to update The Soap Opera Encyclopedia. I have a copy I bought circa 1997 and it's chock full of interesting stuff about even short lived soaps that were off the air ages ago. Great resource, but it needs to be updated to reflect the last three decades.

Sounds like a project for one of our retired DLers.

Guiding Light hands down. Sadly, many never saw its excellence during the 50s &60s, nor the mid 70s to mid 80s due to it being opposite GH at its peak, though GL’s ratings were still huge. I think it gets overlooked due to this.

r381 thanks for the recommendation!

Nina Arvesen, Jensen Bunchanan, young Melissa Reeves, Rena Sofer, Yasmine Bleeth, Vanessa Marcil, and of course Robin Wright should be considered as some of daytimes most beautiful actresses….

R385 Melina Kanakaredes? Tammy Blanchard? Beth Chamberlin? Brittany Snow?

Talk about fraus all you want but there's a host of hot, handsome men too.

Many of whom probably had to offer up their sizemeat on a casting couch to get their roles.......

R386 All very beautiful.

Grant Alexander would have Mr. Hands'd any casting director who tried to take his huge dong.

I really can't imagine Grant doing that.

As much as John Conboy and Chris Bernau probably lived for the very possibility of it.....

Nina Arvesen was absolutely earth shatteringly beautiful.

And then, of course, there's moi.

I happened to watch the 1990 Daytime Emmys today. Those damn algorithms.

Obviously, it was a huge GL year previous. It won writing, lots of noms, Zimmer win, Michelle Forbes should have won over Barr. She should have. If any AMC watcher saw the end of the Sonni/Solita story, which it didnt seem was MF’s reel judging by the clip, Forbes was hands down the best actress that year. Bar none.

But Zimmer’s reel was intense. I guess she was molested at 12, and was confronting her molester. Dayum. It was expertly, beautifully written. Aching. Zimmer was pitch perfect. One of her best, and daytime’s best, leading lady performances. Very understated. So much pain buried underneath while confronting him. It was uncomfortable which how she described her little 12 year old self with this big guy “picking her up off the ground to dance so her feet didn’t touch the floor.” Very uncomfortable.

[bold]Secret Storm[/bold]

[quote] "Search for Tomorrow" LOL. What MARY! came up with that title?

THIS Mary, of course!

WHAT A DOG!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^

R392- Only a GL watcher briefly but love it on YT now-

I remember Emmy Clips vividly-- Its fucking weird as fuck-

This was the B-12--- B-12 on the JUKEBOX SPEECH!!!!

And you held me UP, so my feet didn't even touch the flo-ah!

Some GL doesn’t hold up on YT because so many stories were interwoven and your emotions depended on that so what you watch on screen had to have that context. GL was great at building up great emotion in storylines.

R396 That’s it. Her whole 25 minutes reel is a masterclass.

Zimmer gets a lot of flack but she's had a few very good stories and speeches in her day.

The fountain speech.

The B-12 speech.

The one where Alan paid her a big sum to tell him about how she ate garbage when she was poor and hungry,

All written by Pam Long.

A snippet of the B-12 scene can be seen at about 1 hour 40 minutes in

R399 Thanks, but folks it doesn’t do it justice. And Michelle Forbes was sitting two ppl from her. I heard they hated each other.

Watching the last 20 or so minutes at R399 reminded me of why I loved soaps so much growing up. Talented, beautiful performers, telling outrageous and moving stories. That audience was awash in the faces of so many of my favorites.

Remember Zimmer’s hair at the 1985 Daytime Emmys? She did that just to be noticed as she didn’t tho no she’d win.

Diva VonDish in Soap Opera Digest called Zimmer’s fashion out all the time and Zimmer even name checked her at the ‘89 Emmys.

Who was VonDish? Was it Michael Logan? I always felt like it was a man writing that stuff.

R402 I think it was a collaborative thing.

Jeanne Cooper should've won in 1989, sorry but the Marge kidnapping plot was La Cooper's best story outside the Jill-Kay feud.

And the clip of La Hubbard is amazing, especially when probably only about 10% of what she says and does was on the actual page.

Much as Hubbard knew her character it couldn't have been easy for her screen partners when she ad-libbed. I suppose those who were accustomed to working with her had some idea of what to expect, or perhaps she warned them.

There is no doubt she improved upon what was written for her but I wonder how newcomers handled it.

R405- I think it was probably a blast and a rush to work with her.

I remember some magazine (maybe Weekly) doing an interview with judges after the Emmys one year, an anonymous interview.

It was mostly forgettable but I remember the person interviewed saying - I know Liz Hubbard does great work, I've seen it, but the reel we saw seemed very disjointed, maybe not the best choices for a reel.

So apparently Liz either didn't pick the best ones or just had her own mind about what her best was.

I rarely watched it but I loved the pipe organ theme to Search For Tomorrow. Must have been late 70s.

Not the traditional soap organ theme. It sounded like Bach.

At their very best Guiding Light, As The World Turns, One Life To Live and Santa Barbara. GH had 3 good years in the 90's. I found it laughable the years I saw before. Espionage, Aliens many times away from the hospital in the title. They replaced spies with mobsters in the later years.

R380, Y&R has the big makeup room up the stairs over Stage 43 and yes, B&B has a small makeup room right inside Stage 31.

But there's a big main makeup room underneath the multipurpose rooms and near a wing of other dressing rooms down the hall on the same side as 43 and 41.

I'm assuming that's where Bobbie and Darlene were. On a given day, the Y&R makeup room was probably filled with people working that day and Jeff and other Jack contenders were getting their makeup room done in the other makeup room. It's quite possible, Jeff was sent over to B&B to get his makeup done but I am not sure how that would have worked as he was there for Y&R.

I've been to CBS Television City now known as just "TV City" many times -- years ago.

For some reason, Clayton had to go as Thorne. I've heard rumors but I think there was just too much chemistry between him and Ronn. "Oh, no little brother...Caroline is in love with me." "Oh, no, big brother...just you watch."

Honestly, I was just like KISS already.

R402. No, it wasn't Logan. Steph Sloane 'outed him' in her editor's note. It was a brilliant man named Robert Rorke who passed away.

He wrote about Felicia Gallant -- you wear hats 3x too big for your head, dresses that look like living room drapes, and furs that appear to be the death of entire species.

Hilarious.

The Quebecois loved Felicia but called her arbre de noel.

I think the majority of the Marge story played out IN 1989 so Cooper was up for the Emmy in 1990 for that but Zimmer was unbeatable.

The clip of Reva confronting her abuser/feel-er upper trounced Marge walking around Kay on a green screen with Esther in the background fretting.

I agree Forbes should have won for her work in 1988. Poor Sonni was about to snap in half, it seemed.

McKinsey and Zimmer banter so well with each other in this exchange.

R411 Aw, I didn't realize Robert Rorke had died.

Van Hansis should have won the Emmy for playing Luke Snyder on ATWT. He was nominated but lost to some guy from Y&R.

I think I'm going to watch B&B from the beginning this summer.

La Hubbard on hearing Caleb Snyder -- "yet another Snyder brother" -- is at the farm: "That woman just dropped them like puppies."

Where can you get the B&B archive videos?

R418 Most of the series has been officially uploaded to YouTube.

R415, I called him Ham Hansis.

He was over the top on everything.

Somebody help me here as I swear I saw this scene once on a soap. It was definitely in early September of 1981. I was in the hospital after an appendectomy.

A woman is having a nightmare? Flashback? And she sees a man and a woman but the woman has no face -it’s all black.

Next were two nurses talking and I swore one of them said the word “zombieism” which isn’t even a word. It creeped me out (I was 9) so I took a nap instead. This would have been around noon or 1 pm.

I have done Google searches for years with this scant information and nothing turns up. No idea what show this was, if maybe it was a syndicated soap like “Young Lives.”

Any ideas?

Anybody ever catch Doug Marland’s kinky cable soap “A New Day in Eden”? Shower rape. Barn deflowerings. Lotsa side boob apparently.

Seems to have been wiped from the record book.

A New Day in Eden aired on Showtime, so best to check Showtime's archives.

Show aired from November1982 to August 1983. Total of about 65 episodes produced. Because it was on cable, they could be more risque, so it was more graphic. Would definitely have been considered soft porn at the time that it aired -- that was the whole point of a pay cable station airing a soap.

Anyone remember Spyder Games, the soap that aired on MTV in 2001?

With Jane Wiedlin!

Anyone remember the syndicated Young Lives?

r410 I am guessing we know each other. I used to go to Television City on the daily.

Why would anyone want to watch BB especially from the beginning? I lost faith with soap viewers when that show rose so fast in the ratings. It was terrible. The acting was atrocious. The characters so unlikeable.

Remember that guy Rocco from the first year? The guy who befriended Katie? He had quite the hair.

He was a hustler at the Pine Valley bus station.

r429 Rocco seems to be wearing one of Cher's wigs in that photo.

He was a kung fu master who saved Ridge and Caroline from thugs in a flashback.

Early on, Caroline had that "politician's daughter" look.

But the opening theme sounds like a sick donkey having a seizure.

Someone with a deeper knowledge of soaps than me should start a "Best soap actress of all time" thread.

R427, we probably do.

I've never run into anyone I know on the DL before. (Datalounge, that is; not the down low)

A friend SWORE up and down he thought I'd posted a rave about Judith Champman once; I hadn't but I do love her.

TV City is a GHOST town now; just the two soaps, mostly. the execs all moved to Studio City; Price is Right is gone. There's not even enough employees to justify a commissary.

But did you not know about the big main makeup room down the hall near the multi purpose dressing rooms?

R434 Isn't it widely believed to be Sleezestack?

I don't think it Shaquilstack at all. She ate more ham than anyone.

I just watched the Alan Locher Michael Fairman Daytime Stand up To Cancer.

Kim Zimmer revealed she has breast cancer and had a mastectomy. (She appears to be doing okay).

Slezak shared memories of her daughter.

Kassie talked about her blood cancer.

Sharon Case and Eileen Davidson talked about their storylines.

They could splice the best moments together and give an award for the best segment.

My money's on Zimmer as always (no pun intended)

Dipshit R438- Erika did NOT "share memories" of her daughter- Jesus Christ.

What she did say was incredibly moving- she could barely speak-

Her thoughts on Andrea. Evans were heartfelt--

Kim floored me.

I even liked the dude I always hated on OLTL-John McBain- He had wonderful things to say about Kamar- and this guy has barely aged-

also loved Colleen Zenk- I do not know how she did it- and is thriving 15 years later

According to the list from We Love Soaps, Flannery was widely considered the best actress, followed by Zimmer, Slee, and then McKinsey.

I did not know Kim had cancer. Wow.

Maeve Kinkead did some years back, as well.

Julia Barr and Robin Mattson

Nancy Pinkerton, though her tenure was brief, on OLTL

R440- I love all of those bitches-

I like some random ones too-

Fiona Hutchison

Maureen Garrett

Susan Haskell

Julia Barr

Finola Hughes

Liz Hubbard

There's not a lot of actresses who could have maintained Heather's 2 year story leading up to Diana Taylor's murder and the aftermath. The rest of her work was solid but it's hard to find anything else in soap land that equals her and that story arc. Just the fact that they would have a hugely popular character like Diana murdered was enough in itself.

Maureen, Liz, and Julia were all on that top 50 list, and apparently Finola just missed it.

Judith Light and Susan Haskell should be in the conversation.

story on Zimmer. I hope she'll be okay.

She's No. 1 in my opinion

I sound like Addison DeWitt here but:

Hughes, Hayes, Hubbard, McKinsey, Zimmer, Slezak, Strasser....

Kelly Thiebaud will be among them!

I thought Mary O'Brien was infinitely better than Mattson; Mattson always comes off like she's going to vomit her next line...

"TREVVORR!! Belch!"

Mary Kay Adams.

Denise Alexander

Judith Chapman

Hillary B. Smith.

Flannery.

Jane Elliot.

r435 I did just was never in it. I barely went into Y&R's make-up room. I was much more familiar with the studio on the other side, Started as a page at CBS.

The true star of All My Children...

Miss Kate Collins

Susan Flannery is the only actress who could elevate this crap and make it fun.

r454 Darlene Conely could do it too Her early scenes disguising herself as a male german buyer to sneak into forester were hilarious.

R374, thanks so much for posting that clip, what a gem!

That McKinsey interview is indeed a gem. She was really chatty with the Canadian guy and she was almost NEVER that chatty with anyone. I think she assumed no one from the States would ever see it.

Slezak was maybe not even the best on her show. There really is a case to be made for Light and Haskell. Even Strasser.

I would have loved to see Victoria played entirely by Gillian Spencer. She would have given subtlety and nuance that Slapjackstaystacks wasn't capable of.

I am a Haskell stan for life and would give her #1--

(I knew when her 2009 shows were airing that she would win her 2nd emmy ++If++ she got nominated (OLTL was generally fucked over)

And she did. This was the year that Debbie Morgan was phenomenal and expected to win-

Her episodes were spellbinding (and also part of a very farfetched storyline) It did not matter- she was that good.

I am going to post something here that may not be interesting to many here (as this thread seems to skew to P&G shows)- That's clue 1.

However, for some this may be cool--

Check out this link and really look at the photos..

A certain key part of an infamous storyline was inspired by this-- Clue 2.

(And its a great building!!!)

I think Strasser and Slezak could get hammy. It’s a soap so I never held it against them. For the most part when reigned in they were great. Haskell was a find but she too could go a little dramatic. HBS has always been solid with both drama and comedy. Andrea Evan’s had the charisma and star quality same for Jessica Tuck. I think one of the best and most underrated was Finola Hutchinson. I loved her! She could be so evil and yet you felt and rooted for her. Same for Catherine Hickland in the Lindsey hey day.

R462 is MY bitch.

Fiona is in my Top 3 of all time-- and an absolutely lovely human being in real life. Like a cat lady /arts/crafts farm lady.

I know I'm going to be in the minority here. One of my favorites was Karen Morris-Gowdy as Faith on Ryan's Hope. Not that she was so talented as an actress but she had charisma and was really likeable. They just always kept her as a back burner character sometimes thrust to front. She was the female equivalent of Larry Wolek.

R464, you might want to check out Tom Lisanti's Ryan's Hope book; KMG was a late interview and was happy to share her experiences with the author.

Plus KMG added some stability to the show. She stayed.