Does anyone else have a problem with both our Presidential candidates?

It hadn’t once crossed my mind and I’ve not heard anyone express that sentiment. Thank you for calling this to our attention!

Did you just come out of a prolonged coma, OP? Your concern is shared by many and has been widely discussed. It is what it is (trite phrase) and there is clearly one sane choice.

NOW a warning?!?!?!

You're going to have to vote for Biden anyway. Your concern is noted, but also irrelevant. Thank you, that is all.

Unless Biden croaks before election.

OP is trolling.

Idiot OP

We get these terrible candidates because the Primary process is a disaster. States like Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina...whose populations and political leanings aren't reflective of the majority of the electorate...play too large a role in deciding the nominees. Most primary candidates are forced to drop out before most states have cast their votes.

Only you OP

OP- Yes- 100% This patriarchy and political landscape is a fucking dead end.

It is fucking obscene.

I fucking hate Trump more than anyone.

Biden? A good man. but jesus christ. Eric Swalwell should be running.

Thank you R8 for being the only thoughtful response in this thread.

People like R6 and R7 add nothing to intelligent discourse in this country.

It's why we're so fucked.

Pete Buttigieg should have been the nominee. He was building up the kind of momentum that Obama had before he dropped out to help Biden win his first state in three tries.

The problem is that the Democratic Party is back to thinking that only straight white men are electable. Pete, Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Stacy Abrams and Gretchen Whitmier are all worthy of the Oval Office . But as long as a rabid republican is running, moderate democrats are going to be unmoved from that view.

R12- I agree. I have a multi millionaire near me who had a Buttigieg sign out during the election in 2020 that blew over during a storm (NH seacoast)- With pride I picked up that sign and set it upright during my run. And his /their home was 2 homes up from a proud Trumper scum bag.

That meant something to me.

Republicans fuck with the process when Democrats benefit.

This is a very miniscule light in the darkness-

No one else could have beat Trump but Biden. People were traumatized and wanted to return to the Obama/Buden era. And that may be the scenario again in November. So it is what it is.

That’s crap R16 Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg were all beating Trump in the polls. Biden was not the only one. Bidens campaign was almost finished as a matter of fact before his surprise South Carolina win.

Biden, yeah, he’s old but he’s in command of his faculties AND he’s done a solid job as President.

Trump is a disaster.

Biden beat Trump. He will beat him again.

Will Trump declare his candidacy on Nov. 6th while he is plotting his second takeover of the US Government?

Allan Lichtman’s own metrics indicate Trump re-election. He is selling his relevance to nervous liberals by dishonestly interpreting his own metrics.

Lichtman’s case for Biden’s reelection rest on:

KEY 7 (Policy change): The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy.

He counts this as True. This is not True. The Biden Administration lacks any centerpiece national policy initiative like Obamacare, No Child Left Behind or the North American Free Trade Agreement. Had he passed Student Loan Forgiveness as a law instead of an executive order, that would have been his policy achievement. He did not.

KEY 8 (Social unrest): There is no sustained social unrest during the term.

He counts this as Leans True. This may have been true in January but is undoubtedly False now. But Lichtman is going on the news NOW, with widespread unrest at college campuses, and sticking with his interpretation that there’s no sustained social unrest.

He’s a fraud. Flipping those two keys gives Trump the Presidency, and he knows it.

Additionally:

KEY 10 (Foreign/military failure): The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.

The failure of the US to bring about an end to the seige of Gaza, which the US supports, is a military failure. Lichtman says this Leans False.

[quote]No one else could have beat Trump but Biden.

This is a Big Lie. Under Lichtman’s own metrics, Trump would have lost reelection to a generic Democrat.

R22 How do you come to that conclusion, please?

We are hamstrung by the two-party system and a lack of ranked voting. Break out into five or six parties and force those fuckers to work together.

It used to be the President was this boring person in far-off Washington running the country.

Now I see an innatural over-attention toward the President. As if he's the daddy you never had. He will fix all that is wrong in your life.

If Trump wins he will fuck so many things up. But it will be, 'I toldjaso'. We'll survive. Bden will retire to On Golden Pond and enjoy his retirement from a successful career.

I’m writing in GI Joe as my vote. We need a sexy POTUS.

R23

7 falses for Trump in 2020 including (on less black and white ones)

7: no landmark legislative achievement

8: pandemic

9: many scandals

10: trade wars, withdrawal from treaties and alliances

He would have lost to a generic Democrat which is what Biden offered.

I think of it this way: You’re not just voting for the president, you’re in a sense voting for the advisors too. These will be people surround the president and provide guidance. I mean look at what has been surrounding Trump.

But that was Trump’s rationale for electing him the first time: “I hire the best people.”

Frankly, considering how broken the US political system is, and yet the absolute inability to change it to the better due to obstruction from republicans., i almost wished a disaster of cataclysmic proportions (a new civil war? A mad president actively pushing Russia for war against Europe? The abolition of women’s right to vote?) to shock the American people into demanding a complete overhaul of their institutions. Maybe a second Trump presidency would achieve this. Would it be so bad then?

[quote] I think of it this way: You’re not just voting for the president, you’re in a sense voting for the advisors too. These will be people surround the president and provide guidance. I mean look at what has been surrounding Trump.

Of all the things, this one scares me the most.

You can already see that Trump's mental acuity is gone, from the grueling toll that all the lawsuits have taken on his already aged body and mind.

If Trump gets in, it will be his advisers who are running the show and calling the shots. Maybe even his Vice-President.

And the people surrounding him now are even worse than the people who were surrounding him the first time around.

In 2017, his Cabinet and White House picks were bad, but they still half-attempted to maintain a semblance of a government. And by the end, they all jumped ship.

In 2025, the people surrounding him are pure evil.

Heritage Foundation, Neo-Nazis, Hardcore Bigots and White Supremacists, Militia People, Religious Fundamentalists, and rich people who want to pilfer all that's left from our once great country.

They will run completely amok.

Think Florida under DeSantis, but much, much worse because the rules they dictate will affect our entire country, and not just one state.

AND they will never give up power.

Trump and his cronies have learned much from one term in power, and they swore that the next time would be different.

Oh, it'll be different alright. Like nothing we've ever seen before.

People were traumatized after his first term as President, but they have no idea how bad it will be under a second term.

Mark my words.

It absolutely can't be Trump. He is below the lowest.

R12, someone doesn't just "become the nominee"

They actually need to get votes in the primary!

R30 sounds like Susan Sarandon "Let's elect Donald Trump to bring on the revolution!"

When electing Donald Trump didn't do anything except end Roe v Wade

BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY [bold]GENTIALS[/bold] R26!

R30 it’s scary shit

Wow, OP. In the face of ruinous authoritarianism your "both sides" blather is so refreshing!

Of course. But the right wing are Satan and Trump is their puppet tool.

One is a decent guy who has gotten a lot done.

The other is a fascist criminal.

All Trump does is get in the way and babbles nonsense at best. At worst, it’s dangerous nepotism and corruption.

The two party system is not broken. What is surprising is that after 50 years of Republican domination, voters are getting skittish that Democrats have won so many contests, so many years in a row since Trump's freak win in 2016.

There is no problem with the two party system during a centuries in the making demographic shift. Republicans saw this coming and made their move in Bush v Gore. They have been garnering power with a Reagan weakened middle class.

That ends in 2024.

You're right about the age issue. And neither of the candidates have given much evidence to the contrary. There are people with 80 years who are in command of their faculties, 'sharp as a tack' as my mother would say, who could run circles around other potential candidates decades younger. The Democrats love vesting candidates 'because it's their time', meaning it's their last fucking chance, and then running them twice more after that. It's the wrong approach. The Republicans would run a rabid dog as a candidate (and it would be a better choice if they had done this time around); their allegiance drops and picks up again day by day: in the end, they will vote for anything that leans even a hair's breadth in favor of their wallets. They don't get caught up in whose turn it is and who is owed some respect/favor/indulgence.

But you way wrong on the implication that two old geezers in the running means it doesn't matter: that we're fucked either way. With Trump Americans are royally, irretrievably fucked. All of which makes your first point either silly or an attempt to garner votes for Trump.

Americans shouldn't be choosing between Biden and Trump. But they are. That's the fucking choice.

Honestly, this is such a difficult situation for my husband and I. What do we do? Our feeling is the President position is no longer respected or valued. Trump has created a very sad situation and it’s a hot mess. He made it all about winning. I am so sad for our country. We the people are ready to run together forget the one dysfunctional individual running our country based upon their mental mood that day. It’s unacceptable.

Codependency alert at r43.

R44 fuck you and your immature psychological terms. Unfortunately, your usage of “codependency” is not correct.

We are very worried about our country. Most people living probably are worried about their future. It is scary and sad that we put our trust in one individual to run our country.

So, let’s get back to the question.

We can sit here and talk about who "Should" be the nominee. But this is the hand we are dealt and this is the hand we must play. The media wants us to focus on personalities and worry about age but the fact is it is the policies that matter and there is no alternative to the Democrats. They would love to demonize Kamala and use her for a punching bag to get Trump back into the WH. Don't fall for it..

OP, read Project 2025.

OP = Robert Kennedy Jr.

R44 political issues are not I something I (r45) will discuss with most friends, family, etc. it can destroy relationships. It’s election time so the conversation is we need to deal with the hand we have before us. Unite. We have no choice but to respect each other, stop name calling and restructure our America before we lose anything else.

The person at r31 sounds like an Evangelical.

Here’s the problem: by sounding like an Evangelical, people tune you out.

You can have an army of r31s pounding away at their keyboards, but it doesn’t matter because people are unhappy about the direction of the country under Biden and if presented with a binary choice, will simply opt for the alternative.

Polls indicate that Democrats running for Senate are actually doing well in swing states where Trump has pulled ahead. This means the decisive factor in many people’s choice is simply pass/fail for Biden and they are choosing fail. Trump’s approval of his Presidency is going up; this is because swing voters are starting to rationalize voting for him.

The fact of the matter is,

The R31s of the world are partly responsible for leading us to this path. By continuing to act like Democrats would unilaterally support Biden at the reelection, he received false hope and opted not to make the sensible choice for an 82 year old man and step down.

I believe Biden’s refusal to step down does represent an ethical death in the Democratic Party, similar to how Jeremy Corbyn shackled to Labour left that party catastrophically out of power. A loss to Trump would cause a repudiation of the establishment like McCain’s loss to Obama and Romney’s loss to Obama. This means that you are going to see a Progressive version of the rise of the Tea Party, with actual leftists beginning to primary long-serving centrists, and they will start to move the party left. And they will nominate some radical leftists who will lose easy elections, like when Delaware ousted a popular centrist Republican and replaced him with Christine “I’m not a witch” O’Donnell.

Nevertheless, it was sixteen years before Goldwater’s vision of Republicanism was achieved with Reagan’s election. In 2016, Bernie Sanders almost achieved a takeover of the Democratic Party.

So, we may see the triumph of Democratic Socialism sometime in 2032 or 2036. But Democrats will be out of power for a very long time if Trump is reelected. And if Trump is reelected, then Democrats deserve to be out of power.

I don’t think it’s understood yet just how ruinous Biden will be to the people who support his Centrism. It was frankly in their own interest to replace him with a younger candidate with similar views. But they could not admit they made a mistake. They will be repudiated, the far Left will be vindicated, and Democratic Centrism will collapse.

[quote]for my husband and I

Oh, Dear, objectively...

R47 has the jist of it. Project 2025 is a death sentence for this country. These are bad people.

Turn off your TV sets and walk away from the political news "shows." They're bullshit. We know what we have to do. And start focusing on the state legislatures. Those elections are massively important and so are the judicial elections in every fucking state. Push back. Fight. Right now most TV networks are pissed because their ratings are in the toilet. They were hoping for a hyped up contest and instead they have an asshole falling asleep in court and the other guy, who's President, is as dull as dishwater. They haven't got the revenue generated by controversy so they're hyping these bullshit demonstrations instigated by professional agitators. Democrats need to be better fighters. We, the faithful, need to kick asses and take names. Go to MoveOn or Indivisible and start working. Make phone calls, write postcards, Early voting for the primaries has started in some states. Get going.

Look at it this way if their ages are so freaking concerning to you, think about the people who will be Biden's inner circle, advisors, and cabinet and then think about the people who will be Trump's inner circle, advisors, and cabinet.

On one hand we have Biden's group who have done a fabulous job over the last 4 years filled with people who actually care about the country and democracy, versus the clown show of characters from Trump's 4 years - the one's who aren't in jail or up on charges or who quit in disgust, mind you.

If anyone is having agita over all this or the choice you need to make, then you're an idiot or concern trolling.

If you’re not getting your message across to the public, you’re not doing a fabulous job.

Lowest approval ratings in 70 years should be concerning to anyone who truly cares about this country and keeping the orange menace out for good. You can’t glib your way out of this one.

[quote] It is scary and sad that we put our trust in one individual to run our country.

R45? Did you forget about the House and Senate?

All the president does is pass or veto; the legislature writes the laws. And yes, that's simplistic. Laws are interpreted by the agencies that enforce them, and, to an extent, the president can issue executive orders (a nebulous power never used as often as Trump used it).

But the president does not have the power to run the country -- not yet, anyway.

When you think that in 1960, both candidates for President were in their forties.

I mean, how have we regressed to what we have now?

Thank GOD for OP. I don't believe anyone has been paying attention to this critical matter.

R24

This is not the UK. In the US those 6-7 different parties would not have to work together. Why would they?

With 20% of the national vote one of those 6 or 7 different parties would have the White House for at least 4 years with what some might see as a landslide..

You would see parties striving to gain 20% in elections . Small really hardcore set of true believers would make up those parties. And they would have nothing but hate for the rest.

[quote]Does anyone else have a problem with both our Presidential candidates?

honestly, i suppose I really am an elderly as I've ALWAYS had a problem with both candidates, as far back as the seventies.

people need to be reminded that you are voted fora CABINET, not a candidate. GWBush was a nice guy, but his cabinet was a pack of thieves and killers.

[quote]If you’re not getting your message across to the public, you’re not doing a fabulous job.

Putting the democrats history of just being rotten at messaging aside, it's hard to break through to a country who is still obsessed with Trump.

The news outlets can't let him go, because he's ratings which equals money. The democrats, clearly, can't stop talking about him, the few sane republicans who don't like him can't escape him and then there's those tax breaks, and the MAGAs are just white trash lunatics who just want a racist dictator in charge of everything.

Until this country can get over it's Trump obsession, we're gonna be stuck in this maddening hellscape.

R61

“The news outlets can’t let him go”

Trump is a former president of the United States and current candidate for president of the United States on trial for a serious charge that could result in prison, and on trial virtually every day, Trump has had to pay out millions for civil judgements, he is the run away GOP choice for President for 2024 , and you as director of program would not cover him.

are you a director of programming ?

[quote] All the president does is pass or veto; the legislature writes the laws.

That's not true with Trump.

Did you pay attention the last time he was in power?

He did everything he could, to change/break established rules of the Presidency.

Trump is a dictator and an autocrat. He wants to rule with absolute power.

He pushed the Constitution to its limits, and I fear that if there is a next time, he'll just wipe his ass with the Constitution.

Do not underestimate what Trump will do with a second term, and do not underestimate the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025.

These people are for real, and they will fundamentally change our country. Both literally and figuratively.

Boomers are notorious for their denial about ageing. IIRC, they swung it for Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020. Maybe they just don't want anyone younger than them to be president.

Bill Clinton was inaugurated 31 years ago; he's the same age as Trump, and four years younger than Biden.

R63 is 100% correct. Thank you. People need to pay attention.

HAs anyone watched Howard Stern's interview with Biden on You Tube? It's worth watching. Then come back and tell me how senile Joe is. The media promoting Trump's inevitability think we're stupid enough to have forgotten what happened .

It doesn’t matter if Joe had a nice interview with Howard Stern.

People do not like the direction of the country. They will vote for Trump because that is the only alternative and Biden does not give them hope to correct it.

The good news, OP, is that Trump hasn't lost mental acuity and judgment with age.

He was always a developmentally delayed sociopath, right back before Daddy decided he had to be shipped off to military school because he was unmanageable.

R60 Nice guy?

You do know you're on a gay site don't you?

GWB ran for reelection on a platform to ban marriage equality by enshrining in the US Constitution.

If you are a member of our community then you're as bad a butt-kisser as Ellen D.

I have less than zero problems with Biden's age. Old does not necessarily mean senile. His body has slowed down, granted. But his decision making powers are still fine. And besides, any POTUS makes decisions based mainly on the intel his staff and cabinet have given him. If he was going to do something completely insane, trust me, there are enough people in the administration who would convince him otherwise. Biden is not an egomaniac like Trump, who is batshit crazy and surrounds himself with others who are just as (if not more) batshit crazy as he is.

Biden is an egomaniac. If he is not an egomaniac, he would have stepped down, because his approval already showed he was unlikely to be reelected.

[quote]All Trump does is get in the way and babbles nonsense at best. At worst, it’s dangerous nepotism and corruption.

Women in red states who've discovered they're pregnant by rapists may disagree with you.

While we sit here wondering who is going to save the Democratic party, the rest of the world is tilting to the far right. Look at the first lady PM of Italy. Progressive, right? Until you realize she's part of the Mussolini fascist reinvention and everyone thinks it's a good idea. It's the reinvention of Berlusconi (Trump's Italian speaking doppelganger) who we thought was gone forever. Italy isn't that important in the grand scheme of global politics but more like a canary in the coal mine along with the rest of Western Europe. Look at Germany. Eventually things will swing far enough to the right that the natural correction back towards the middle will happen. But when?

This country needs an enema.

R75 Dems should've been doing more spots reminding folks what they've done a long time ago.

[quote]the rest of the world is tilting to the far right.

It depends on the country, R74. The UK is likely to boot out its Conservative government in the next election, whereas Canada is likely to elect a Conservative government in its next election.

A large part of this is just part of the natural political life cycle that happens in most countries. Voters almost always desire change after one party has been in power for multiple terms.

A thread for younger people who have done absolute shit for the common good of the country , and will continue to do absolutel shit for the common good of the country , to complain about their olders like Biden who are stepping up and trying to do something.

The internet changes everything, R77. The "natural political life cycle" has been disrupted. Propaganda and disinformation is swamping the landscape, saturating every aspect of our communication and drilling into our brains all kinds of fake, false bullshit in ways we have never before experienced. The Democratic Party's historic weakness in messaging is the one thing they really cannot afford to ignore right now. The conspiracy websites , the divisive scare tactics are on steroids. All of the garbage has now taken up permanent residence in our mainstream news media too. I honestly believe if we're going to come out of this alive with democracy's beating heart still healthy, we have to turn off the TV political news shows, and be judicious about how we get our information. As far as I can see, the two main arguments for electing Democrats are Reproductive freedom, and the Environment/climate change. If they pound us on inflation, we have to go after them for wage stagnation, and the fact that the red states are screwing over renters which they are. And if the GOP wants to get rid of Social Security and Medicare that is going to affect the whole economy, and it will definitely impact everyone no matter how old you are.

R78 it was boomers who overwhelmingly voted for Turnip head in 2016.

I am so sick and fucking tired of reading this ^^ on this site.

Don't you idiots know you're preaching to the choir??? Not [bold]all[/bold] Boomers voted for Trump, and I would bet everything I have that very few Boomers on [italic]this[/italic] website voted for Trump. Why are you trying to guilt the Boomers on DL when we were the ones who fought for your rights back in the day? You should be fucking thanking us, not disparaging us.

Take your big mouths on the road: yell this crap at the Proud Boys, or the Kyle Rittenhouses of the world. There are plenty of them out there, you know. I am surrounded by young white trash who think Trump is the Second Coming. Come down here to Deplorable Haven and have a chat with them! Bet you don't have the balls to confront [bold]them[/bold] face to face where you might get shot for doing so.

I rest my case.

In 2016 the 30-49 age group voted 51% for Clinton. Hardly a landslide.

In 2016 the 65+ age group voted 53% for Trump. How do you define overwhelmingly?

And so many of the young did shit and voted for no one or went green.

And my point stands , generations of Americans , who have done absolutely nothing in any way to support the country or the common good and instead spend their time complaining about those that do try and do something.

And most of this complaining and whining done on line on forums like DL. These people the do nothings but constantly complaining are a waste of sperm and egg.

Now we’re seeing who the real special snowflakes are.

R81 I recommend Thorazine.

R81 hey BOOMER DYKE:

Isn't it interesting that the younger generations AREN'T going after the Silent Generation or the Greatest Generation.

No, my dear. They are attacking directly you and now Gen X and its not without reason.

Also, remove the dildo from your asshole.

R81: by the way. You are not owed a single thing by younger generations, you entitled twat.

Those gay rights and feminist rights that you try to take credit for? Those were largely fought by the earlier generations while you useless assholes snorted blow and partied to disco.

The only thing the Baby Boomers ever fought for were things that the Baby Boomers were affected by. They don't give a fuck about anybody else.

When I was a baby Xer in college and starting a career, there were loud voices talking about how boomers were hoarding jobs, defaulted on student loans without consequence, and turned conservative. It was energizing talk, but not in a way that prompted a lot of action.

Generational warfare, especially based on arbitrary divisions, is almost impossible to turn into action. It encourages tribalist chest thumping, but not policy. Which is probably why people get so intense about it - because it changes nothing.

Why don't all of you STFU. Go back and read some history and stop generalizing about which generation did what or fucked up the most. Jeez. you're all pretty ! Now go out there and kick some MAGA ass.